Datasets:

---

innovation-hacking2

/

shitposting_dataset1

like 0

[ "Can you give some links that specify the \"recent Gwen Stefani controversy\" and clarify what position this \"progressive gaming website\" is taking? That context isn't particularly clear to me.\n\n... If you are of white race, you should not be able to claim that you are of Japanese Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame. ...\n\nPasta was invented in China. Does that mean that people shouldn't be allowed to sell pasta unless they're got some kind of Chinese cultural background? Should white Californians be prohibited from harvesting sea urchins and selling them to the Japanese because eating sea urchin is part of Japanese culture, but not so much part of white California culture?\nThere's also the \"people who deal with African culture stuff should be black\" stuff. We've had a bunch of generations of black people in the US, and Africa is a huge place with diverse cultures. Does it make sense to think that someone whose great great great grandfather was taken from Senegal has any meaningful connection to cultural artifacts from Tanzania thanks to that ancestry?", ">\n\nSure\nGwen Stefani controversy, again this is a starting point for the conversation, not the hypothetical.\nGwen Stefani Claims \"I`m Japanese\"\nWill quote the entire position posted on the gaming website:\n\nOne thing that's important to remember, is although there may be some valid instances where person of X \"race\" is raised in a specific country, by that country's people, with that country's culture, etc. and they identify with that + are accepted by those people as such, that still doesn't mean this person can then take things from that culture and use them for fame and profit, much less claim that you ARE that culture. EDIT: and yes I understand that's not even what truly took place with Gwen, I'm just basing this on it hypothetically being the case. She's not even in that category.", ">\n\nOk, so people are saying this stuff about \"even if the person was raised in Japan\" in the context of a discussion about Gwen Stefani's claims.\nSo, the first observation to make is that people aren't very good about thinking what they're saying through, and will often say silly things in the moment. \"Even if the person was raised in Japan\" position seems the the kind of thing that people might say when they're too busy being upset to think clearly.\nThere are certainly examples - like with war bonnets - where the cultural appropriation complaints clearly has to do with an existing culture, but it also seems like much of the \"cultural appropriation\" stuff has a lot more to do with how minorities feel as a minority population in the US than it has to do with a connection to an origin culture. Consider, for example, how strongly people react to the idea of Wakanda even when it's explicitly a fairy tale, or how there was a furor about \"My culture is not your prom dress!\" on one side of the Pacific Ocean but not on the other. If \"cultural appropriation\" is really about people's unhappiness with their status in the US, then it's not so silly to discount origins.", ">\n\nThank you! \nWhile did not change my mind on the viewpoint.\nYour answer was the most helpful in understanding why someone would have this opinion and where the feelings come from, Appreciated!", ">\n\nI would also argue that cultural appropriation comes with signal and noise.\nIf you have something in your culture that has meaning it's entirely possible for a larger outside group to swamp that meaning and change it. For example, you're bleeding. You see someone with a lab coat and stethoscope and you're like \"sweet, a doctor\" and then they look at you like you're crazy because that's, like, a fashion statement. It'd be quite jarring and you'd still be bleeding.\nOften times things like the war bonnet are the equivalent of military medals. There are laws against wearing medals that you didn't earn, why shouldn't there be rules against wearing the war bonnet that is earned the same way? That's also where a lot of the 'my culture isn't your prom dress'. It's not an issue where your culture is dominant and everyone would expect the person wearing equipment associated with doctors to actually be a doctor, but if you're in a minority position where people don't understand the connection then making people aware that they're doing something that will lead to problems is useful. \nClothing is communication. That's the whole point of fashion, saying something about who and what you are. There is signal, wearing clothes that communicate good information. There is noise, wearing something that is either actively lying or is misleading or is using a different and unusual meaning that will confuse people. I don't see how making a mockery of veterans using words or making a mockery of them by 'ironically' wearing their medals is any different.", ">\n\nThere is a huge difference between wearing a certain style of clothing that you like and wearing a recognised uniform of a soldier… that’s not a good faith comparison. You are comparing fashion to fraud.\nThe vast majority of people actually from the country of origin of a style love foreigners wearing it, they celebrate it. It’s almost always Whiney middle class westerners who complain on behalf of others, I speculate it’s from wanting to gain clout or based off some white saviour complex but I don’t actually know their motive for it. \nIf you’re very obviously not a part of that culture then there’s no issue with you wearing a war bonnet. If some American wore a kilt in my families colours I wouldn’t care at all because they’re not trying to lie, they just like kilts and are ignorant of the meaning of the colours. It’s hardly a big deal.", ">\n\nI'm not sure about the soldier thing. It's pretty common to dress as a soldier for fancy dress/halloween, and I don't think there's any harm in that, unless it's done in a way designed to be disrespectful. If someone were wearing a military uniform in order to pass themselves off as an actual soldier and benefit from it, I'd have problems with that too. But just wearing the uniform isn't necessarily a bad thing, I don't think.\nThat's probably how I feel about cultural appropriation in general. If you're taking things from another culture to make fun of it, or claim it as your own, then no, not good. But if you wear the clothes, or eat the food, or listen to music etc from another culture because you genuinely appreciate it, I don't see the problem. It's being respectful, it's sharing culture, maybe even showing people who haven't had chance to experience that culture some of the good things about it, and I can only see that as a good thing.\nI'm very uncomfortable with the idea that any sharing of culture between races is a bad thing, which seems to be how some people define cultural appropriation, as it seems to be reinforcing the idea that cultures shouldn't mix, and playing in to the hands of racists.", ">\n\nA war bonnet is less wearing a uniform, and more like wearing medals on that uniform. You have to earn the right to wear a war bonnet.\nI also think the issue of the authenticity of what you consume is important. If you are listening to music from an artist of a culture, or eating food or wearing clothes sourced from members of that culture (and who benefit from that consumption) that's very different from buying something stripped of context and mass-produced by someone who will not be investing any of their profit back into the group to whom it originally belonged.\nI went to a Desi wedding recently. The groom, a friend of mine, said everyone was invited to wear Indian clothing to some of the events, so I picked a kurta. I bought it from an Indian company and picked an appropriate style and color for my role in the wedding and what kind of event it was. In short, I made every attempt to engage with the culture on its own terms and avoid doing anything that would be a dick move. And a lot of this was possible because there are spheres in which Desi culture is dominant, so when I existed within them I was necessarily operating within acceptable boundaries. If I had done something rude or unacceptable, I would have been moved back into acceptability (very nicely, everyone was great, but the idea stands). This is not the context in which American Indian culture specifically is usually consumed. Much more common is a single item or set of them, used as accessories while operating within another culture that has historically shown significant scorn for the peoples from whom it is taking these objects.\nLike I said on another comment, it's an issue of not being an asshole. Are you treating the object (and what it symbolizes) with the respect it deserves? My kurta was just a piece of clothing, so the respect was in what I did with it. However, authentic war bonnets are handmade for the people who earned them. If you buy one just to wear, you've already been disrespectful to what it means to the people to whom it has actual significance. If someone at the wedding had told me I was doing something out of line, I would have stopped doing it. If I hadn't, I would have been an asshole. If native people are saying \"please don't make costumes out of war bonnets\" I feel like you're an asshole if you keep doing it.", ">\n\nIn the case of Gwen Stefani, she's a person who for all intents and purposes is white, and she's using Japanese culture as an aesthetic - that's not bad. She was also using stereotypes, misusing cultural terms and symbols, and had a group of Japanese girls follow her around almost as props -that's the bad part.\nIts not wrong to claim a culture you were raised in even if you aren't the race of the people around you. Many adoptees do. But Gwen isn't Japanese. She wasnt raised there either. She isn't joining in on a culture, like some people do when they are \"cultural appreciators\", she's simply taking small pieces, specifically pieces of the Harajuku fashion scene, and turning it into a brand, especially when Japanese Americans are often used as a \"model minority\". It's not an equal exchange between Gwen and Asian Americans because obviously she can just do whatever she wants whereas they can't ask her to stop.", ">\n\nI really don’t know about this case but as you framed it I still don’t see what is wrong with her actions. It sounds ‘marketing like’. There is no reason for there to be equal exchange between a person and a people, as long as someone isn’t harming others in some way playing the advantage is fine.", ">\n\nUsing stereotypes as a brand is harmful.", ">\n\nIs she using negative stereotypes? A stereotype is fine as long as it isn’t negative in nature. Culture is fundamentally a collection of stereotypes in a sense.", ">\n\nI don’t see how that article proves my stance is untrue. Also a side note don’t generally trust articles framed from a sensationalistic perspective, especially if it is also framed like a story. If this article does indeed prove my stance untrue or you yourself can, can you make it clear in a conceptual / abstract fashion while avoiding sensationalism? That would be helpful.", ">\n\nThe problem I see with your statement is because you start by saying X RACE but switch to saying culture. Those are not the same thing. \nCase in point, I lived in Barbados for a time. 95% of the population is Black, but about 3% is White and approx. 2% is South or East Asian. \nThe White Bajans were born, raised and live in Barbados. They speak with the local accent and are raised in the same cultural context of their Black peers (listen to the same music, celebrate the same festivities, enjoy the same food, etc.), so it would be fair to call themselves Islanders/Bajans, and to benefit from their culture. \nWhite Bajans however do not have experience being Black. They absolutely should not use their cultural background as justification to rip off Black experiences for profit or otherwise. \nA perhaps more well-known example would be celebrity Michael B Jordan ripping off the name \"J'Ouvert\" for his rum company. Despite being Black, Jordan is not from the Caribbean and aligning your product with a traditional Caribbean festival to drive consumers to derive profit is not ethical.", ">\n\nYeah I think that's the important distinction. They can absolutely use the culture they were brought up in, but saying because you were brought up in that culture you also have the racial experience doesn't follow.", ">\n\nBut all the “racial experience” stuff is Americans projecting their racist, invented concepts of race onto people in other countries. America isn’t the only country in the world, and the experience of a white American isn’t analogous to every person in the world an American would describe as white.", ">\n\nUh what? Yeah of course it isn't analogous, that's the entire point. What are you talking about?", ">\n\nThat would be a great point if it didn't totally misunderstand what cultural appropriation is. The problem isn't \"ownership\" or who did it first, it's that one culture persecuted another for this, but is now enjoying it consequence-free while the original injustice remains unaddressed.", ">\n\nHilarious this is the top comment when it doesn't even get the central concept right.", ">\n\nEasily digestible, non-threatening false info is often more popular than challenging truth.", ">\n\nThanks for the positive reply! \nI think this may be too extreme of an example that I won`t get anyone actually trying to change my mind, may help to expand the viewpoint to transracialism in general.", ">\n\nPart of the issue is your are conflating (not to be rude but) stupid people on the internet talking about something, and an actual esoteric academic subject.\nIf you wanted to learn, say, about quantum physics would you go down to your local bar and ask the patrons? You wouldn't. But the information you're using is so generic and nonspecific that its the equivalent. You're looking for a basic common denominator because you're arguing against an equivalent.\nIf you want to learn about an esoteric subject you read published peer reviewed reports on that subject that explores the nuance, issues, and information associated with the topic.\nThat's really your problem. And maybe you're trying to expressly dissuade tiktokers and twitter users from using it - I don't disagree there. Its the same thing that is happening with Critical Thinking - people uneducated on the topic are loud and opinionated and make shit up to see knowledgeable. But what you aren't doing is learning about the actual academic topic that coined cultural appropriation - what it really is. You're working, instead, in a framework of second hand information passed along by people unassociated with the topic. Given the comment section, they're also ill-informed about the definition, examples, and history. Those people are playing telephone and have non-academic motives.\nIn the case that you listed no academic would consider that cultural appropriation by the academic definition;\n\nthe unacknowledged or inappropriate adoption of the customs, practices, ideas, etc. of one people or society by members of another and typically more dominant people or society.\n\nThe definition immediately defines the word as having to be unacknowledged and/or inappropriate. Literally being adopted isn't inappropriate.", ">\n\nFrom my experience with (even double blind) peer review, I don't understand why the practice has garnered such an adoring reputation, as it provides no assurance of Truth. \nThat said, I agree that it's worth learning what experts have to say. Just don't take it as gospel.", ">\n\nIt’s not about truth - it’s about people actually well educated on tangential but associated topics being able to contribute and discuss a topic in great detail using their education and experience with the topic. Pretty much everything you won’t find in non-academic realms. \nA benefit would be - and not to be rude, but an opportunity for example - not having to explain that it’s not about “truth” as a side topic to general academia.", ">\n\nYou'll have to be clearer. I don't understand what you're saying.\nI don't see how it's an opportunity to not be burdened with foundational methodological questions. I wish discussions could be more efficient in that way. I don't think it's possible unless you have people who have already accepted certain things. That's difficult is a forum like this.\nAs I understand it, peer review mostly exploded after WW2. While the volume of papers rapidly accelerated, the quality per paper did not, IMO.", ">\n\nTL;DR: There is no reason to believe Stefani is concurrent with the hypothetical you’ve provided in your title.\nIf people are accepted by a group as part of that group, it doesn’t really matter what out-groups have to say about it; moreover, it shouldn’t matter. The way you’ve set this up is a truism: out-groups don’t generally define in-groups if they aren’t part of that in-group; that’s not how in/out-groups work. In this example, if Gwen is accepted as a Japanese person, she’s either “accepted by Japanese people as a Japanese person,” or “she’s Japanese”. The distinction isn’t really worth fighting over by out-groups because they don’t define the terms.\nWith all that said, I think you should consider specific examples versus hypotheticals here, because hypotheticals aren’t important, but cultural examples definitely are. For example, you’ve described this situation as your example, but it’s not an example of your hypothetical: she’s not accepted by Japanese people as Japanese, and if she were, I don’t think this would be news; moreover, Stefani’s publicist said in a statement about Stefani that the claim was not made in earnest (i.e., “she didn’t mean literally Japanese”). Further still, Stefani is a ‘serial appropriator’, and that’s a known value. There’s no reason to think this situation is different, and her publicist noted that she didn’t claim what people are saying she claimed—specifically, she said the words “I’m Japanese”, but didn’t make the claim that she was, in fact, Japanese (again, despite literally saying it).", ">\n\n\nshe’s not accepted by Japanese people as Japanese\n\nHow could she be? They generally still have a blood-and-soil concept of who can be Japanese.", ">\n\nI’m not saying she is. In fact, that’s exactly what I am saying: this is a super bad example of what OP is trying to say.", ">\n\nThis is a pretty interesting topic.\nI am of Asian background but let's say I paid a Ukrainian grandmother to teach me how to make authentic Ukrainian perogies and I could ultimately master/replicate the recipe.\nA) Is it ethical that I sell these perogies and market it as authentic to people in my motherland, and\nB) Is it ethical if I sell then within Ukraine?\nTo me, under question A) I think it's fair, because you're providing a service that people would otherwise not be able to realistically receive so it promotes globalization. I would also say it's not cultural appropriation, if the recipe is an authentic and you're not making any false or grossly exaggerated representations.\nQuestion B) on the other hand, is a bit harder to answer and would depend on quite a few specifics. However, in general, to me this teeters more towards the unethical side, because you're not providing a novel service, and thus, you're using this recipe with the greater intention of making money.\nI'm not really sure what your position is, but would be interested to see how you interpret the above.", ">\n\nLet’s say you’re a native Ukrainian who “uses a pierogi recipe with the greater intention of making money”. Do you think that’s unethical too?\nIf no: then what’s wrong with a foreigner/non-Ukrainian doing it?\nIf yes: then your answers to both questions has nothing to do with cultural appropriation!", ">\n\n\nLet’s say you’re a native Ukrainian “uses a pierogi recipe with the greater intention of making money”. Do you think that’s unethical too?\nIf no: then what’s wrong with a foreigner/non-Ukrainian doing it?\n\nThe first scenario wouldn't be cultural appropriation because they are of that culture. The second scenario would fit into the category of cultural appropriation (barring some exceptions, such as if they had grown up within that culture).", ">\n\nTrue. But we already established with your first example that cultural appropriation is not always bad.", ">\n\nI don't know if you read the interview with Gwen Stefani, but really the problem is her commodification of Japanese culture for her benefit while she herself was not raised in Japan (from everything I've seen) and was not Japanese. Even then, there's another aspect, regardless of being raised in Japan if you are ethically white you simply can't face the exact same experiences. If that white person raised in Japan migrates to America they will not face the same sort of discrimination an ethnically Japanese person would face. \nI am half native and it shows, I was raised in America in a very white dominant environment, however I am incapable of claiming to truly be white regardless of that fact. Regardless of everything else, when someone sees me I will not be a white person. I may like the same things, use the same idioms, have the same accent, etc, but I will forever be seen and treated as something else. That is the reality of racism that many ethnically white people don't recognize because, like Gwen Stefani, they never had to truly face the repercussions for being a minority in that facet.", ">\n\nFrom your title, you give a lot of prerequisites. They must be:\n\nX race\nraised in Y country\nBy Y country's people\nWith Y countries culture\nIdentify with Y country's identity\nAccepted by Y country's people\n\nAnd then they can do what they want with that culture.\nWhich of these, if not met, are dealbreakers?\nWhat if they meet all of the above but are not \"raised by Y country's people\", for example. Are they still allowed to take elements from that culture?", ">\n\nThanks for the thought-provoking follow-up, I went with the extreme example, because that is what the source was setting as criteria. \nI`m sure I would be even much more liberal with the definition, but have not worked out my own viewpoint on where the line would be that you can call yourself a \"Culture\" \nIf someone`s lived experiences make them feel that they are that culture and they have any of the above (Besides only \"Identify with Y country's identity\" just), I guess I would find it acceptable to use that culture. \n------\n-Obviously there are degrees: if you lived in an embassy compound for a year, never left the compound, calling yourself that Y country can seem to be stretching it.", ">\n\nRace ≠ Nationality\nIf I, an African moved to Sweden and had a child who grew up in and spoke fluent Swedish language, was culturally Swedish, it still wouldn't make them Swede. Not unless their father was Swedish...\nThey'd be Swedish the nationality, but not an Ethnic Swede by race. .", ">\n\nIs Swedish an ethnicity?", ">\n\nThere are always going to be degrees of gradation to this, rather than some strict sharp line of delineation. For some people, to some observers, in some situations there will be labels that apply or don't and it comes down to how far outside of the sort of \"central cluster\" of that population a person is.\nThough I'd also say that looking like a member of a particular culture's vastly dominant race is itself a part of being in that culture, particularly with aspects of how that culture deals with self-image and interacts with outsiders. So there's going to be at least some part of what's generally part of Japanese culture which a white person will always be on the outside of, no matter what they do or what their background is, at least with respect to how things currently work. Whether this becomes relevant to a question (either internally or externally) of identity is going to come down to a lot of details of the specific situation.", ">\n\nIf you're born and raised in Japan, you're Japanese, regardless of your skin color, race, etc...\nAlso, culture is nurture, not nature. If you're raised in Japan, you're going to act culturally Japanese.", ">\n\nThanks for example!\nHonestly an even better example may be (Who does not use her otherness):\nKiko Mizuhara\nShe fits the criteria above:\nBorn In Dallas Texas, to a Korean Mother and Texan Father.\nRaised in Japan / Japanese schools. Only spoke Japanese growing up.\nCertainly on a list of largest fashion influencers in Japan now.\nCan she not call herself Japanese?", ">\n\nWentz, Becky, Thane Camus (whose nationality is American but was raised in Japan) etc. are all Japanese as far as I'm concerned, but it's also insincere to say they haven't leveraged their otherness to stand out and get ahead. \nThis is not meant to be judgemental, just a simple statement of fact.", ">\n\nRight or wrong, how does this affect the CMV either way? It doesn't seem to challenge or support their viewpoint, it's tangential.", ">\n\nIt doesn't; it's just supposed to make you feel bad and shut up.", ">\n\nWell first, I don’t believe Stefani grew up in Japan. If that was true then yeah she would have a better claim to being culturally Japanese. \nSecondly, Japanese culture is not like America were you can immigrate and become fully integrated. There are Koreans living in Japan whose great great grandparents were brought over as laborers before WW 2 and who are still not seen as true Nihonjin. It’s a specific mix of racial, ethnic, and cultural traits that make you Japanese. You can’t just adopt the identity, even if you grew up in Japan. \nTLDR you can’t claim a cultural identity unless that culture says you can be part of it. And with Japanese culture in particular, it’s incredibly hard if not impossible to join the club after birth.\nEdit: my statements are based on my experiences living 3 years in Japan and looking into Japanese citizenship through marriage.", ">\n\n\nWell first, I don’t believe Stefani grew up in Japan. If that was true then yeah she would have a better claim to being culturally Japanese.\n\nShe claimed that her father went on business trips to Japan, and that she was exposed to some Japanese culture while growing up in California.", ">\n\nIs this about the cat song or have she gone of the rails?", ">\n\nShe recently did an interview where she claimed she was Japanese because her dad went there a lot and she likes Japanese culture", ">\n\nI mean that describes tens of thousands of people. Well millions if you include every anime or Kurosawa fan. IMHO you need to at least have a long-term resident's visa and be fluent in Japanese to call yourself culturally Japanese.", ">\n\nThe biggest issue here is working with an incredibly hypothetical situation that may or may not have ever happened, and then asking to have a fully formed black or white view of it. Especially while using vague language to describe the scenario.\nIf a Japanese baby is adopted out to a German couple and spends their entire life in Germany, speaking German, etc, does your view also mean they must forgo any cultural ties to their birthplace and birth parents?", ">\n\nNope, My view is all for first / second / third-culture kids. \nThe German situation, I would be fine with them having cultural ties to birthplace / birth parents. In no way would expect it of them though. \nI`m personally a third culture kid, and while I`m nowhere close to the hypothetical, I have met and been friends with people that fit in the above hypothetical example (Again mostly, Korean / Chinese)", ">\n\nThat seems like a different view, since your post is pretty specifically about adoption", ">\n\nWhat if we take a non-white people example and try to run through this logic?\nImagine a Nigerian couple moves to Norway. They learn English, they adopt the Norwegian culture, they learn the history and adopt the expected social practices. This couple has a child. This child is raised Norwegian, speaks English etc.\nIn this hypothetical example, is the child Norwegian? \nThe problem with philosophy is that it tends to break down when we bring it into the real world. People can exist in gray space between labels. The child can be seen as both Norwegian and not and most people just judge what they think is most important in the category. Or maybe it depends on what is meant in context when discussion of Norwegian identity comes up. Is simply being born there enough or is there something more ephemeral to the identity?", ">\n\nYes, that child is Norwegian with Nigerian heritage. Norwegian is the language they'd be speaking though.", ">\n\nThat is your opinion. That wouldn't be everyone's opinion. That is my point.\nAlso, yeah, dumb mistake on my part. Was half-awake.", ">\n\nImo anyone who thinks otherwise has a whiff of racism.", ">\n\nLuckily, you aren't the arbiter of everyone's identities.", ">\n\nThe combination of culture, heritage and norms you're talking about is generally understood as \"ethnicity\"... \"race\", insofar as it still has any meaning, is basically a proxy for \"looks a certain way / has a certain set of genetics\".\nSo here's the thing: whether or not you belong to an ethnicity boils down to:\n\nWhether you identify with that ethnicity\nWhether enough folks of that ethnicity accept your identification with it\n\nThat's as simple as it is ... it's not a taxonomic structure, it's a social structure, and that means that it's defined socially.\nJapan is an extremely \"racially\" homogenous place (\\~98%), which means that being \"ethnically\" Japanese is highly associated with looking similar to most Japanese people. That means that someone who is adopted and raised by Japanese people, grew up in Japan, speaks Japanese, but doesn't look Japanese might not be accepted by most Japanese people as being ethnically Japanese.\nTo be clear: I don't think a bunch of (presumably non-Japanese) people on a progressive gaming website get to say one way or the other whether a \"white\" person can say they're Japanese ... Japanese people get to say that, because they define how their ethnicity works.\nHere's an alternate example: folks of my own ethnic group (I'm Jewish) generally accepts someone as Jewish if:\n\nTheir mother was Jewish\nThey were raised as a Jew\nThey convert to Judaism (the religion associated with ethnic Jews. Not every Jew practices Judaism, but everyone who practices Judaism is a Jew).\n\nEvery ethnic group has slightly different rules and norms, and that's a-ok.", ">\n\n\nHere's an alternate example: folks of my own ethnic group (I'm Jewish) generally accepts someone as Jewish if:\n\nTheir mother was Jewish\nThey were raised as a Jew\nThey convert to Judaism (the religion associated with ethnic Jews. Not every Jew practices Judaism, but everyone who practices Judaism is a Jew).\n\n\nNot that it's super relevant to your point, but it is not true that converts are accepted as Jewish by all Jews, nor is it true that someone raised as a Jew with no other inherited or ritualized connection to Judaism is Jewish.", ">\n\n\nNot that it's super relevant to your point, but it is not true that converts are accepted as Jewish by all Jews\n\nIt's certainly true of most Jews -- I never said everyone who belongs to an ethnicity has to expect you, just most. Jews, too, can be jerks.\n\nnor is it true that someone raised as a Jew with no other inherited or ritualized connection to Judaism is Jewish.\n\nI'm not sure how you can be raised as a Jew without any \"ritualized connection to Judaism\".", ">\n\n\nIt's certainly true of most Jews\n\nSure, but its not as uncontroversial or factual as you laid it out. \n\nI'm not sure how you can be raised as a Jew without any \"ritualized connection to Judaism\".\n\nI can't think of a scenario where it really makes sense for this to happen, but if neither of your parents are Jewish and you didn't convert, then by the rules of Judaism, you are not Jewish regardless of how you were raised or what you practice.", ">\n\n\nSure, but its not as uncontroversial or factual as you laid it out. \n\nIt's uncontroversial to every group of secular, reform and conservative Jews I've met or interacted with -- I am aware that Haredim may view it differently, but am less familiar with their beliefs.\n\nI can't think of a scenario where it really makes sense for this to happen, but if neither of your parents are Jewish and you didn't convert, then by the rules of Judaism, you are not Jewish regardless of how you were raised or what you practice.\n\nSure, if you're not born a Jew, then you can't practice Judaism without converting to Judaism, but I can't imagine you'd be adopted by parents who want to raise you as a Jew but don't envision that including practicing Judaism", ">\n\n\nIt's uncontroversial to every group of secular, reform and conservative Jews I've met or interacted with -- I am aware that Haredim may view it differently, but am less familiar with their beliefs.\n\nPrejudice isn't exclusively the purview of more orthodox Jews. My father in law is a convert and I've seen plenty of prejudice among conservative and reform Jews, thinking of converts as strange, or as tryhards, or as somehow \"less\" Jewish. \n\nSure, if you're not born a Jew, then you can't practice Judaism without converting to Judaism, but I can't imagine you'd be adopted by parents who want to raise you as a Jew but don't envision that including practicing Judaism\n\nPracticing Judaism doesn't make you Jewish. You're born Jewish, or you convert.", ">\n\n\nPrejudice isn't exclusively the purview of more orthodox Jews. My father in law is a convert and I've seen plenty of prejudice among conservative and reform Jews, thinking of converts as strange, or as tryhards, or as somehow \"less\" Jewish.\n\nThat's fair enough, but I don't think it takes away from my point to OP. The common opinion in the US is that you're \"American\" by virtue of citizenship ... the prejudiced minority opinion that you're \"less\" American if you don't \"look\" American doesn't really change that fact.\n\nPracticing Judaism doesn't make you Jewish. You're born Jewish, or you convert.\n\nWe're going in circles here, mate. If you're not born Jewish, how can you practice Judaism without converting to Judaism? You can't practice Judaism without being a Jew.", ">\n\n\nThat's fair enough, but I don't think it takes away from my point to OP\n\nYeah, that's literally the first thing I said.\n\nYou can't practice Judaism without being a Jew.\n\nOf course you can, because practicing Judaism and being Jewish are not the same thing. You can do all the things Jews do without being Jewish.\nPracticing = behaviors\nBeing = a status", ">\n\n\nOf course you can, because practicing Judaism and being Jewish are not the same thing. You can do all the things Jews do without being Jewish.\n\nDon't think that makes sense from a theological perspective. Judaism is a covenant between God and the Jews; you can follow many of the rules voluntarily if you like, but to be bound by and participate in the covenant requires being a Jew.\nMany of the practices also require being a Jew. You can't participate in a minyan if you aren't a Jew; there are many mitzvot you can't perform without a minyan. E.g., you can't recite the devarim shebikdushah.\nYour argument is kinda like saying, \"You can practice law without being a lawyer,\" and it's incorrect for the same reason.", ">\n\n\nyou can follow many of the rules voluntarily if you like\n\nThat's practicing Judaism. \n\nbut to be bound by and participate in the covenant requires being a Jew.\n\nAnd that's being Jewish. You totally get the difference. \n\nYou can't participate in a minyan if you aren't a Jew; there are many mitzvot you can't perform without a minyan.\n\nRight. You need to have a minyan, you don't need to be part of one. Women haven't always been allowed to be in a minyan, either, but they were still Jewish. \n\nYour argument is kinda like saying, \"You can practice law without being a lawyer,\" and it's incorrect for the same reason.\n\nYou actually can practice law without being a lawyer. That's what you're doing when you represent yourself in court.", ">\n\nWhile there will be a certain amount of racists saying stupid shit (often even more obnoxiously online) the premiss that everyone accept people of another ethnicity is pretty shake in the best of times, even for minorities or native people that might have lived as long, or longer than the majority ethnicity.\nA country like Japan. Known for pretty much being the example of a monoethnic culture, and being very xenophobic/discriminating against all foreigners... Well, I don't have a surprised face tbh.", ">\n\n\"If you are of white race, you should not be able to claim that you are of Japanese Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame.\"\nso whether or not you can do something depends on.... your race? wait a minute doesnt that sound like racism. also let me do this.\n\"If you are of black race, you should not be able to claim that you are of french Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame.\"\nthere if you made that adjustment your comment would be removed by the moderators because racism is only ok against white people\ni would give it a 50% chance that you dont even agree with the second statement.", ">\n\nI mean she didn’t claim she is “of Japanese culture” she literally said “I’m Japanese!” because her dad used to make business trips to Japan and she was exposed to some Japanese culture growing up in Cali. That’s a pretty absurd claim.", ">\n\nFor me, the shoe is on the other proverbial foot. I am Gitxsan (Native American) and was taken from my mother at the age of 18 months as part of the Sixties Scoop. Just before turning 3, I was adopted by a German immigrant family. My family brought me to Germany several times, I was fluent in German by age 5, and the city where my adopted mother hails from has accepted me as one of the family. By this logic, am I allowed to claim German heritage?", ">\n\nYou're allowed to do that regardless of race.", ">\n\nI think it blows your mind because you expected some kind of internally consistent logic. It's just emotional shallow reactions.\nSomething about white people making money off of non white people? On most mainstream websites that premise is enough for the vast majority of people to agree? Why? Because it sounds like a thing the good guys on our side would say.", ">\n\nI think intent goes a long way in this discussion. I live in Oklahoma. Native American culture is everywhere. You would be hard pressed to find a public place or private business that does not have its influence clearly on display. Many white people wear clothing and jewelry of Native influence. This is not looked at as appropriation. Our former governor, Mary Fallon, had a daughter. She has a band. It is an outright assault on the ears. But that aside, at one venue she decided to don a plastic war bonnet and dance around the stage, provoking the Natives protesting her act. Every Oklahoman with any brains can tell the difference between appropriating a culture and celebrating one. I think most of the country can too. It’s as easy as knowing right from wrong. Use good judgment.", ">\n\nEveryone should have the right to identify with and claim a culture that they feel a connection to, regardless of their race or ethnicity.", ">\n\nCulture is shaped by a variety of factors and should not be limited by one's race or ethnicity.", ">\n\nIt is important to consider the historical and societal context in which someone is claiming a certain culture, as cultural appropriation can be hurtful and disrespectful to marginalized cultures.", ">\n\nIt is important to have an open and respectful dialogue to navigate these complex issues and consider the perspectives of all involved parties.", ">\n\nWere you raised in Japan by missionary parents? Is your audience Japanese, or are you presenting to a mostly none Japanese culture?\nSo much is Just context.\nWhat was your position and where did your privilege come from inside of that culture?\nBlacks and whites were living in the same place but minsrel shows we're still pretty problematic.\nI could see a lot of times when it would be okay, but could you see any situation when it would not be?", ">\n\nRacial gatekeeping is for losers that never go outside and meet people", ">\n\nThat's the naturalization part of immigration.", ">\n\na side note to this post, without getting my own opinion involve its very common for japanese to belive all non japanese looking people to be foreing even when raised in the country so her case might be mixed with japanese prejudicy", ">\n\nFrom a black persons' context, there is a very vivid perspective about this topic in the tv series AtlantaFX S4E10 where Earn, Alfred and Van go to a black owned Japanese restaurant.", ">\n\nIt’s wise to be careful about generalities when abstracting groups of groups of groups like this. When you pull out to a thousand feet lens, humans are generally similar across these somewhat arbitrary divisions. But the close up differences are the whole point and are worth taking into consideration. Especially for when the conversation is so specific that named individuals are involved. \nI do not have anything to say about this one particularly, but arbitrarily ignoring differences does not make arbitrary differences go away. Two wrongs and a right and all that.", ">\n\nIf a baby is born and bred in America, no matter where their for fathers are from they are Americans. Whether they are Asian, African etc. my father was born in America of parents who immigrated from Denmark. He was American.\nHe could have called himself Danish American but American he remained, having served his country for 20 years in the Air force. Is there a law that states he could not have profited from his Danish decent. I don’t think so.", ">\n\nMarcus Samuelson claims his Ethiopian and Swedish heritage. He was born in Ethiopia and was adopted by Swedes and grew up there. He is now an American. How would he not claim his ethnicity or not claim where he grew up.", ">\n\nIn my opinion, if someone is adopted at a young age into a culture different from their parents, they can claim to be from that culture. Example: If a black baby from Kenya is adopted and raised into an Arabic household in Arabia, where he is raised with Arabic culture and is taught their customs and language, then they can claim to be of Arabic culture. What, they're supposed to identify with a Kenyan culture they have no personal ties to? They cannot, however, claim to be ethnically Arab, as that is different.", ">\n\nDepends on which culture. An American going to Africa, learning a trade/custom/whatever and then profiting is unethical given the history of the Western world's exploitation of the entire continent and how that's left most states in Africa. \nI think people understand the extreme example, but they take the polarized stance to every culture. Japan is an interesting one since its always been isolationist, and has never been conquered by a Western power. But there has been a history of anti-Asian, and specifically anti-Japanese sentiment.\nWith respect to appropriation in Japan, as an American it's likely hard to relate since we don't have a long history of customs and culture. But there is the fetishizing of Japanese culture. The closest thing we probably have is religion. The reverse example would be a non-Christian country dressing up as knock off Jesus. I'm sure people would be mad at that in some way.", ">\n\n\nDepends on which culture. An American going to Africa, learning a trade/custom/whatever and then profiting is unethical given the history of the Western world's exploitation of the entire continent and how that's left most states in Africa.\n\nWhy exactly is this unethical? Like, I understand that the history of the Western world's exploitation of the African continent is unethical... but why does that translate into it being wrong for, say, a white American chef to incorporate Ethiopian-inspired dishes into their cuisine, or for a white musician to play a traditional Nigerian instrument on an album? What harm is being done by either of these things?", ">\n\n\nbut why does that translate into it being wrong for, say, a white American chef to incorporate Ethiopian-inspired dishes into their cuisine,\n\nI spoke in absolutes but my intention wasn't to communicate it was an absolute. I think there's no single rule. I was more using Africa as the region as the extreme case with a history of exploitation, vs a country like Japan. \nFor example, a chef celebrating some Ethiopian dishes is much different than opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants back in the states. Obviously a lot of gray area in between.\nGenerally I view some instances as cultural tourism fueled by white guilt. An extreme case is white missionaries taking trips to Africa to \"work\" for 3 weeks, take pictures with black people, and then go home. Maybe they wear a traditional piece of clothing and discuss their time there.", ">\n\n\nFor example, a chef celebrating some Ethiopian dishes is much different than opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants back in the states. Obviously a lot of gray area in between.\n\nYou still seem to take it as axiomatic that there is some level of \"appropriation\" that is unethical. What would be wrong with me opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants? Whether or not the food is \"authentically Ethiopian\", what exactly is the harm here? Is Taco Bell appropriation? What if I just really like Ethiopian food and want to share my take on it? If customers like the food and are willing to buy it... what's the problem? Is it wrong to claim it's Ethiopian when it's just an Americanized dish inspired by Ethiopian cuisine? \nI'm not trying to give you a hard time here, I just honestly can't see why this would be \"unethical\" in any way. What harm is caused by taking inspiration from a foreign culture? Even if I make boatloads of profits, I haven't \"stolen\" anything away from the Ethiopian people, I'm just using some of their favored ingredients and making dishes similar to what they eat." ]

[ "Can you give some links that specify the \"recent Gwen Stefani controversy\" and clarify what position this \"progressive gaming website\" is taking? That context isn't particularly clear to me.\n\n... If you are of white race, you should not be able to claim that you are of Japanese Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame. ...\n\nPasta was invented in China. Does that mean that people shouldn't be allowed to sell pasta unless they're got some kind of Chinese cultural background? Should white Californians be prohibited from harvesting sea urchins and selling them to the Japanese because eating sea urchin is part of Japanese culture, but not so much part of white California culture?\nThere's also the \"people who deal with African culture stuff should be black\" stuff. We've had a bunch of generations of black people in the US, and Africa is a huge place with diverse cultures. Does it make sense to think that someone whose great great great grandfather was taken from Senegal has any meaningful connection to cultural artifacts from Tanzania thanks to that ancestry?", ">\n\nSure\nGwen Stefani controversy, again this is a starting point for the conversation, not the hypothetical.\nGwen Stefani Claims \"I`m Japanese\"\nWill quote the entire position posted on the gaming website:\n\nOne thing that's important to remember, is although there may be some valid instances where person of X \"race\" is raised in a specific country, by that country's people, with that country's culture, etc. and they identify with that + are accepted by those people as such, that still doesn't mean this person can then take things from that culture and use them for fame and profit, much less claim that you ARE that culture. EDIT: and yes I understand that's not even what truly took place with Gwen, I'm just basing this on it hypothetically being the case. She's not even in that category.", ">\n\nOk, so people are saying this stuff about \"even if the person was raised in Japan\" in the context of a discussion about Gwen Stefani's claims.\nSo, the first observation to make is that people aren't very good about thinking what they're saying through, and will often say silly things in the moment. \"Even if the person was raised in Japan\" position seems the the kind of thing that people might say when they're too busy being upset to think clearly.\nThere are certainly examples - like with war bonnets - where the cultural appropriation complaints clearly has to do with an existing culture, but it also seems like much of the \"cultural appropriation\" stuff has a lot more to do with how minorities feel as a minority population in the US than it has to do with a connection to an origin culture. Consider, for example, how strongly people react to the idea of Wakanda even when it's explicitly a fairy tale, or how there was a furor about \"My culture is not your prom dress!\" on one side of the Pacific Ocean but not on the other. If \"cultural appropriation\" is really about people's unhappiness with their status in the US, then it's not so silly to discount origins.", ">\n\nThank you! \nWhile did not change my mind on the viewpoint.\nYour answer was the most helpful in understanding why someone would have this opinion and where the feelings come from, Appreciated!", ">\n\nI would also argue that cultural appropriation comes with signal and noise.\nIf you have something in your culture that has meaning it's entirely possible for a larger outside group to swamp that meaning and change it. For example, you're bleeding. You see someone with a lab coat and stethoscope and you're like \"sweet, a doctor\" and then they look at you like you're crazy because that's, like, a fashion statement. It'd be quite jarring and you'd still be bleeding.\nOften times things like the war bonnet are the equivalent of military medals. There are laws against wearing medals that you didn't earn, why shouldn't there be rules against wearing the war bonnet that is earned the same way? That's also where a lot of the 'my culture isn't your prom dress'. It's not an issue where your culture is dominant and everyone would expect the person wearing equipment associated with doctors to actually be a doctor, but if you're in a minority position where people don't understand the connection then making people aware that they're doing something that will lead to problems is useful. \nClothing is communication. That's the whole point of fashion, saying something about who and what you are. There is signal, wearing clothes that communicate good information. There is noise, wearing something that is either actively lying or is misleading or is using a different and unusual meaning that will confuse people. I don't see how making a mockery of veterans using words or making a mockery of them by 'ironically' wearing their medals is any different.", ">\n\nThere is a huge difference between wearing a certain style of clothing that you like and wearing a recognised uniform of a soldier… that’s not a good faith comparison. You are comparing fashion to fraud.\nThe vast majority of people actually from the country of origin of a style love foreigners wearing it, they celebrate it. It’s almost always Whiney middle class westerners who complain on behalf of others, I speculate it’s from wanting to gain clout or based off some white saviour complex but I don’t actually know their motive for it. \nIf you’re very obviously not a part of that culture then there’s no issue with you wearing a war bonnet. If some American wore a kilt in my families colours I wouldn’t care at all because they’re not trying to lie, they just like kilts and are ignorant of the meaning of the colours. It’s hardly a big deal.", ">\n\nI'm not sure about the soldier thing. It's pretty common to dress as a soldier for fancy dress/halloween, and I don't think there's any harm in that, unless it's done in a way designed to be disrespectful. If someone were wearing a military uniform in order to pass themselves off as an actual soldier and benefit from it, I'd have problems with that too. But just wearing the uniform isn't necessarily a bad thing, I don't think.\nThat's probably how I feel about cultural appropriation in general. If you're taking things from another culture to make fun of it, or claim it as your own, then no, not good. But if you wear the clothes, or eat the food, or listen to music etc from another culture because you genuinely appreciate it, I don't see the problem. It's being respectful, it's sharing culture, maybe even showing people who haven't had chance to experience that culture some of the good things about it, and I can only see that as a good thing.\nI'm very uncomfortable with the idea that any sharing of culture between races is a bad thing, which seems to be how some people define cultural appropriation, as it seems to be reinforcing the idea that cultures shouldn't mix, and playing in to the hands of racists.", ">\n\nA war bonnet is less wearing a uniform, and more like wearing medals on that uniform. You have to earn the right to wear a war bonnet.\nI also think the issue of the authenticity of what you consume is important. If you are listening to music from an artist of a culture, or eating food or wearing clothes sourced from members of that culture (and who benefit from that consumption) that's very different from buying something stripped of context and mass-produced by someone who will not be investing any of their profit back into the group to whom it originally belonged.\nI went to a Desi wedding recently. The groom, a friend of mine, said everyone was invited to wear Indian clothing to some of the events, so I picked a kurta. I bought it from an Indian company and picked an appropriate style and color for my role in the wedding and what kind of event it was. In short, I made every attempt to engage with the culture on its own terms and avoid doing anything that would be a dick move. And a lot of this was possible because there are spheres in which Desi culture is dominant, so when I existed within them I was necessarily operating within acceptable boundaries. If I had done something rude or unacceptable, I would have been moved back into acceptability (very nicely, everyone was great, but the idea stands). This is not the context in which American Indian culture specifically is usually consumed. Much more common is a single item or set of them, used as accessories while operating within another culture that has historically shown significant scorn for the peoples from whom it is taking these objects.\nLike I said on another comment, it's an issue of not being an asshole. Are you treating the object (and what it symbolizes) with the respect it deserves? My kurta was just a piece of clothing, so the respect was in what I did with it. However, authentic war bonnets are handmade for the people who earned them. If you buy one just to wear, you've already been disrespectful to what it means to the people to whom it has actual significance. If someone at the wedding had told me I was doing something out of line, I would have stopped doing it. If I hadn't, I would have been an asshole. If native people are saying \"please don't make costumes out of war bonnets\" I feel like you're an asshole if you keep doing it.", ">\n\nIn the case of Gwen Stefani, she's a person who for all intents and purposes is white, and she's using Japanese culture as an aesthetic - that's not bad. She was also using stereotypes, misusing cultural terms and symbols, and had a group of Japanese girls follow her around almost as props -that's the bad part.\nIts not wrong to claim a culture you were raised in even if you aren't the race of the people around you. Many adoptees do. But Gwen isn't Japanese. She wasnt raised there either. She isn't joining in on a culture, like some people do when they are \"cultural appreciators\", she's simply taking small pieces, specifically pieces of the Harajuku fashion scene, and turning it into a brand, especially when Japanese Americans are often used as a \"model minority\". It's not an equal exchange between Gwen and Asian Americans because obviously she can just do whatever she wants whereas they can't ask her to stop.", ">\n\nI really don’t know about this case but as you framed it I still don’t see what is wrong with her actions. It sounds ‘marketing like’. There is no reason for there to be equal exchange between a person and a people, as long as someone isn’t harming others in some way playing the advantage is fine.", ">\n\nUsing stereotypes as a brand is harmful.", ">\n\nIs she using negative stereotypes? A stereotype is fine as long as it isn’t negative in nature. Culture is fundamentally a collection of stereotypes in a sense.", ">\n\nI don’t see how that article proves my stance is untrue. Also a side note don’t generally trust articles framed from a sensationalistic perspective, especially if it is also framed like a story. If this article does indeed prove my stance untrue or you yourself can, can you make it clear in a conceptual / abstract fashion while avoiding sensationalism? That would be helpful.", ">\n\nThe problem I see with your statement is because you start by saying X RACE but switch to saying culture. Those are not the same thing. \nCase in point, I lived in Barbados for a time. 95% of the population is Black, but about 3% is White and approx. 2% is South or East Asian. \nThe White Bajans were born, raised and live in Barbados. They speak with the local accent and are raised in the same cultural context of their Black peers (listen to the same music, celebrate the same festivities, enjoy the same food, etc.), so it would be fair to call themselves Islanders/Bajans, and to benefit from their culture. \nWhite Bajans however do not have experience being Black. They absolutely should not use their cultural background as justification to rip off Black experiences for profit or otherwise. \nA perhaps more well-known example would be celebrity Michael B Jordan ripping off the name \"J'Ouvert\" for his rum company. Despite being Black, Jordan is not from the Caribbean and aligning your product with a traditional Caribbean festival to drive consumers to derive profit is not ethical.", ">\n\nYeah I think that's the important distinction. They can absolutely use the culture they were brought up in, but saying because you were brought up in that culture you also have the racial experience doesn't follow.", ">\n\nBut all the “racial experience” stuff is Americans projecting their racist, invented concepts of race onto people in other countries. America isn’t the only country in the world, and the experience of a white American isn’t analogous to every person in the world an American would describe as white.", ">\n\nUh what? Yeah of course it isn't analogous, that's the entire point. What are you talking about?", ">\n\nThat would be a great point if it didn't totally misunderstand what cultural appropriation is. The problem isn't \"ownership\" or who did it first, it's that one culture persecuted another for this, but is now enjoying it consequence-free while the original injustice remains unaddressed.", ">\n\nHilarious this is the top comment when it doesn't even get the central concept right.", ">\n\nEasily digestible, non-threatening false info is often more popular than challenging truth.", ">\n\nThanks for the positive reply! \nI think this may be too extreme of an example that I won`t get anyone actually trying to change my mind, may help to expand the viewpoint to transracialism in general.", ">\n\nPart of the issue is your are conflating (not to be rude but) stupid people on the internet talking about something, and an actual esoteric academic subject.\nIf you wanted to learn, say, about quantum physics would you go down to your local bar and ask the patrons? You wouldn't. But the information you're using is so generic and nonspecific that its the equivalent. You're looking for a basic common denominator because you're arguing against an equivalent.\nIf you want to learn about an esoteric subject you read published peer reviewed reports on that subject that explores the nuance, issues, and information associated with the topic.\nThat's really your problem. And maybe you're trying to expressly dissuade tiktokers and twitter users from using it - I don't disagree there. Its the same thing that is happening with Critical Thinking - people uneducated on the topic are loud and opinionated and make shit up to see knowledgeable. But what you aren't doing is learning about the actual academic topic that coined cultural appropriation - what it really is. You're working, instead, in a framework of second hand information passed along by people unassociated with the topic. Given the comment section, they're also ill-informed about the definition, examples, and history. Those people are playing telephone and have non-academic motives.\nIn the case that you listed no academic would consider that cultural appropriation by the academic definition;\n\nthe unacknowledged or inappropriate adoption of the customs, practices, ideas, etc. of one people or society by members of another and typically more dominant people or society.\n\nThe definition immediately defines the word as having to be unacknowledged and/or inappropriate. Literally being adopted isn't inappropriate.", ">\n\nFrom my experience with (even double blind) peer review, I don't understand why the practice has garnered such an adoring reputation, as it provides no assurance of Truth. \nThat said, I agree that it's worth learning what experts have to say. Just don't take it as gospel.", ">\n\nIt’s not about truth - it’s about people actually well educated on tangential but associated topics being able to contribute and discuss a topic in great detail using their education and experience with the topic. Pretty much everything you won’t find in non-academic realms. \nA benefit would be - and not to be rude, but an opportunity for example - not having to explain that it’s not about “truth” as a side topic to general academia.", ">\n\nYou'll have to be clearer. I don't understand what you're saying.\nI don't see how it's an opportunity to not be burdened with foundational methodological questions. I wish discussions could be more efficient in that way. I don't think it's possible unless you have people who have already accepted certain things. That's difficult is a forum like this.\nAs I understand it, peer review mostly exploded after WW2. While the volume of papers rapidly accelerated, the quality per paper did not, IMO.", ">\n\nTL;DR: There is no reason to believe Stefani is concurrent with the hypothetical you’ve provided in your title.\nIf people are accepted by a group as part of that group, it doesn’t really matter what out-groups have to say about it; moreover, it shouldn’t matter. The way you’ve set this up is a truism: out-groups don’t generally define in-groups if they aren’t part of that in-group; that’s not how in/out-groups work. In this example, if Gwen is accepted as a Japanese person, she’s either “accepted by Japanese people as a Japanese person,” or “she’s Japanese”. The distinction isn’t really worth fighting over by out-groups because they don’t define the terms.\nWith all that said, I think you should consider specific examples versus hypotheticals here, because hypotheticals aren’t important, but cultural examples definitely are. For example, you’ve described this situation as your example, but it’s not an example of your hypothetical: she’s not accepted by Japanese people as Japanese, and if she were, I don’t think this would be news; moreover, Stefani’s publicist said in a statement about Stefani that the claim was not made in earnest (i.e., “she didn’t mean literally Japanese”). Further still, Stefani is a ‘serial appropriator’, and that’s a known value. There’s no reason to think this situation is different, and her publicist noted that she didn’t claim what people are saying she claimed—specifically, she said the words “I’m Japanese”, but didn’t make the claim that she was, in fact, Japanese (again, despite literally saying it).", ">\n\n\nshe’s not accepted by Japanese people as Japanese\n\nHow could she be? They generally still have a blood-and-soil concept of who can be Japanese.", ">\n\nI’m not saying she is. In fact, that’s exactly what I am saying: this is a super bad example of what OP is trying to say.", ">\n\nThis is a pretty interesting topic.\nI am of Asian background but let's say I paid a Ukrainian grandmother to teach me how to make authentic Ukrainian perogies and I could ultimately master/replicate the recipe.\nA) Is it ethical that I sell these perogies and market it as authentic to people in my motherland, and\nB) Is it ethical if I sell then within Ukraine?\nTo me, under question A) I think it's fair, because you're providing a service that people would otherwise not be able to realistically receive so it promotes globalization. I would also say it's not cultural appropriation, if the recipe is an authentic and you're not making any false or grossly exaggerated representations.\nQuestion B) on the other hand, is a bit harder to answer and would depend on quite a few specifics. However, in general, to me this teeters more towards the unethical side, because you're not providing a novel service, and thus, you're using this recipe with the greater intention of making money.\nI'm not really sure what your position is, but would be interested to see how you interpret the above.", ">\n\nLet’s say you’re a native Ukrainian who “uses a pierogi recipe with the greater intention of making money”. Do you think that’s unethical too?\nIf no: then what’s wrong with a foreigner/non-Ukrainian doing it?\nIf yes: then your answers to both questions has nothing to do with cultural appropriation!", ">\n\n\nLet’s say you’re a native Ukrainian “uses a pierogi recipe with the greater intention of making money”. Do you think that’s unethical too?\nIf no: then what’s wrong with a foreigner/non-Ukrainian doing it?\n\nThe first scenario wouldn't be cultural appropriation because they are of that culture. The second scenario would fit into the category of cultural appropriation (barring some exceptions, such as if they had grown up within that culture).", ">\n\nTrue. But we already established with your first example that cultural appropriation is not always bad.", ">\n\nI don't know if you read the interview with Gwen Stefani, but really the problem is her commodification of Japanese culture for her benefit while she herself was not raised in Japan (from everything I've seen) and was not Japanese. Even then, there's another aspect, regardless of being raised in Japan if you are ethically white you simply can't face the exact same experiences. If that white person raised in Japan migrates to America they will not face the same sort of discrimination an ethnically Japanese person would face. \nI am half native and it shows, I was raised in America in a very white dominant environment, however I am incapable of claiming to truly be white regardless of that fact. Regardless of everything else, when someone sees me I will not be a white person. I may like the same things, use the same idioms, have the same accent, etc, but I will forever be seen and treated as something else. That is the reality of racism that many ethnically white people don't recognize because, like Gwen Stefani, they never had to truly face the repercussions for being a minority in that facet.", ">\n\nFrom your title, you give a lot of prerequisites. They must be:\n\nX race\nraised in Y country\nBy Y country's people\nWith Y countries culture\nIdentify with Y country's identity\nAccepted by Y country's people\n\nAnd then they can do what they want with that culture.\nWhich of these, if not met, are dealbreakers?\nWhat if they meet all of the above but are not \"raised by Y country's people\", for example. Are they still allowed to take elements from that culture?", ">\n\nThanks for the thought-provoking follow-up, I went with the extreme example, because that is what the source was setting as criteria. \nI`m sure I would be even much more liberal with the definition, but have not worked out my own viewpoint on where the line would be that you can call yourself a \"Culture\" \nIf someone`s lived experiences make them feel that they are that culture and they have any of the above (Besides only \"Identify with Y country's identity\" just), I guess I would find it acceptable to use that culture. \n------\n-Obviously there are degrees: if you lived in an embassy compound for a year, never left the compound, calling yourself that Y country can seem to be stretching it.", ">\n\nRace ≠ Nationality\nIf I, an African moved to Sweden and had a child who grew up in and spoke fluent Swedish language, was culturally Swedish, it still wouldn't make them Swede. Not unless their father was Swedish...\nThey'd be Swedish the nationality, but not an Ethnic Swede by race. .", ">\n\nIs Swedish an ethnicity?", ">\n\nThere are always going to be degrees of gradation to this, rather than some strict sharp line of delineation. For some people, to some observers, in some situations there will be labels that apply or don't and it comes down to how far outside of the sort of \"central cluster\" of that population a person is.\nThough I'd also say that looking like a member of a particular culture's vastly dominant race is itself a part of being in that culture, particularly with aspects of how that culture deals with self-image and interacts with outsiders. So there's going to be at least some part of what's generally part of Japanese culture which a white person will always be on the outside of, no matter what they do or what their background is, at least with respect to how things currently work. Whether this becomes relevant to a question (either internally or externally) of identity is going to come down to a lot of details of the specific situation.", ">\n\nIf you're born and raised in Japan, you're Japanese, regardless of your skin color, race, etc...\nAlso, culture is nurture, not nature. If you're raised in Japan, you're going to act culturally Japanese.", ">\n\nThanks for example!\nHonestly an even better example may be (Who does not use her otherness):\nKiko Mizuhara\nShe fits the criteria above:\nBorn In Dallas Texas, to a Korean Mother and Texan Father.\nRaised in Japan / Japanese schools. Only spoke Japanese growing up.\nCertainly on a list of largest fashion influencers in Japan now.\nCan she not call herself Japanese?", ">\n\nWentz, Becky, Thane Camus (whose nationality is American but was raised in Japan) etc. are all Japanese as far as I'm concerned, but it's also insincere to say they haven't leveraged their otherness to stand out and get ahead. \nThis is not meant to be judgemental, just a simple statement of fact.", ">\n\nRight or wrong, how does this affect the CMV either way? It doesn't seem to challenge or support their viewpoint, it's tangential.", ">\n\nIt doesn't; it's just supposed to make you feel bad and shut up.", ">\n\nWell first, I don’t believe Stefani grew up in Japan. If that was true then yeah she would have a better claim to being culturally Japanese. \nSecondly, Japanese culture is not like America were you can immigrate and become fully integrated. There are Koreans living in Japan whose great great grandparents were brought over as laborers before WW 2 and who are still not seen as true Nihonjin. It’s a specific mix of racial, ethnic, and cultural traits that make you Japanese. You can’t just adopt the identity, even if you grew up in Japan. \nTLDR you can’t claim a cultural identity unless that culture says you can be part of it. And with Japanese culture in particular, it’s incredibly hard if not impossible to join the club after birth.\nEdit: my statements are based on my experiences living 3 years in Japan and looking into Japanese citizenship through marriage.", ">\n\n\nWell first, I don’t believe Stefani grew up in Japan. If that was true then yeah she would have a better claim to being culturally Japanese.\n\nShe claimed that her father went on business trips to Japan, and that she was exposed to some Japanese culture while growing up in California.", ">\n\nIs this about the cat song or have she gone of the rails?", ">\n\nShe recently did an interview where she claimed she was Japanese because her dad went there a lot and she likes Japanese culture", ">\n\nI mean that describes tens of thousands of people. Well millions if you include every anime or Kurosawa fan. IMHO you need to at least have a long-term resident's visa and be fluent in Japanese to call yourself culturally Japanese.", ">\n\nThe biggest issue here is working with an incredibly hypothetical situation that may or may not have ever happened, and then asking to have a fully formed black or white view of it. Especially while using vague language to describe the scenario.\nIf a Japanese baby is adopted out to a German couple and spends their entire life in Germany, speaking German, etc, does your view also mean they must forgo any cultural ties to their birthplace and birth parents?", ">\n\nNope, My view is all for first / second / third-culture kids. \nThe German situation, I would be fine with them having cultural ties to birthplace / birth parents. In no way would expect it of them though. \nI`m personally a third culture kid, and while I`m nowhere close to the hypothetical, I have met and been friends with people that fit in the above hypothetical example (Again mostly, Korean / Chinese)", ">\n\nThat seems like a different view, since your post is pretty specifically about adoption", ">\n\nWhat if we take a non-white people example and try to run through this logic?\nImagine a Nigerian couple moves to Norway. They learn English, they adopt the Norwegian culture, they learn the history and adopt the expected social practices. This couple has a child. This child is raised Norwegian, speaks English etc.\nIn this hypothetical example, is the child Norwegian? \nThe problem with philosophy is that it tends to break down when we bring it into the real world. People can exist in gray space between labels. The child can be seen as both Norwegian and not and most people just judge what they think is most important in the category. Or maybe it depends on what is meant in context when discussion of Norwegian identity comes up. Is simply being born there enough or is there something more ephemeral to the identity?", ">\n\nYes, that child is Norwegian with Nigerian heritage. Norwegian is the language they'd be speaking though.", ">\n\nThat is your opinion. That wouldn't be everyone's opinion. That is my point.\nAlso, yeah, dumb mistake on my part. Was half-awake.", ">\n\nImo anyone who thinks otherwise has a whiff of racism.", ">\n\nLuckily, you aren't the arbiter of everyone's identities.", ">\n\nThe combination of culture, heritage and norms you're talking about is generally understood as \"ethnicity\"... \"race\", insofar as it still has any meaning, is basically a proxy for \"looks a certain way / has a certain set of genetics\".\nSo here's the thing: whether or not you belong to an ethnicity boils down to:\n\nWhether you identify with that ethnicity\nWhether enough folks of that ethnicity accept your identification with it\n\nThat's as simple as it is ... it's not a taxonomic structure, it's a social structure, and that means that it's defined socially.\nJapan is an extremely \"racially\" homogenous place (\\~98%), which means that being \"ethnically\" Japanese is highly associated with looking similar to most Japanese people. That means that someone who is adopted and raised by Japanese people, grew up in Japan, speaks Japanese, but doesn't look Japanese might not be accepted by most Japanese people as being ethnically Japanese.\nTo be clear: I don't think a bunch of (presumably non-Japanese) people on a progressive gaming website get to say one way or the other whether a \"white\" person can say they're Japanese ... Japanese people get to say that, because they define how their ethnicity works.\nHere's an alternate example: folks of my own ethnic group (I'm Jewish) generally accepts someone as Jewish if:\n\nTheir mother was Jewish\nThey were raised as a Jew\nThey convert to Judaism (the religion associated with ethnic Jews. Not every Jew practices Judaism, but everyone who practices Judaism is a Jew).\n\nEvery ethnic group has slightly different rules and norms, and that's a-ok.", ">\n\n\nHere's an alternate example: folks of my own ethnic group (I'm Jewish) generally accepts someone as Jewish if:\n\nTheir mother was Jewish\nThey were raised as a Jew\nThey convert to Judaism (the religion associated with ethnic Jews. Not every Jew practices Judaism, but everyone who practices Judaism is a Jew).\n\n\nNot that it's super relevant to your point, but it is not true that converts are accepted as Jewish by all Jews, nor is it true that someone raised as a Jew with no other inherited or ritualized connection to Judaism is Jewish.", ">\n\n\nNot that it's super relevant to your point, but it is not true that converts are accepted as Jewish by all Jews\n\nIt's certainly true of most Jews -- I never said everyone who belongs to an ethnicity has to expect you, just most. Jews, too, can be jerks.\n\nnor is it true that someone raised as a Jew with no other inherited or ritualized connection to Judaism is Jewish.\n\nI'm not sure how you can be raised as a Jew without any \"ritualized connection to Judaism\".", ">\n\n\nIt's certainly true of most Jews\n\nSure, but its not as uncontroversial or factual as you laid it out. \n\nI'm not sure how you can be raised as a Jew without any \"ritualized connection to Judaism\".\n\nI can't think of a scenario where it really makes sense for this to happen, but if neither of your parents are Jewish and you didn't convert, then by the rules of Judaism, you are not Jewish regardless of how you were raised or what you practice.", ">\n\n\nSure, but its not as uncontroversial or factual as you laid it out. \n\nIt's uncontroversial to every group of secular, reform and conservative Jews I've met or interacted with -- I am aware that Haredim may view it differently, but am less familiar with their beliefs.\n\nI can't think of a scenario where it really makes sense for this to happen, but if neither of your parents are Jewish and you didn't convert, then by the rules of Judaism, you are not Jewish regardless of how you were raised or what you practice.\n\nSure, if you're not born a Jew, then you can't practice Judaism without converting to Judaism, but I can't imagine you'd be adopted by parents who want to raise you as a Jew but don't envision that including practicing Judaism", ">\n\n\nIt's uncontroversial to every group of secular, reform and conservative Jews I've met or interacted with -- I am aware that Haredim may view it differently, but am less familiar with their beliefs.\n\nPrejudice isn't exclusively the purview of more orthodox Jews. My father in law is a convert and I've seen plenty of prejudice among conservative and reform Jews, thinking of converts as strange, or as tryhards, or as somehow \"less\" Jewish. \n\nSure, if you're not born a Jew, then you can't practice Judaism without converting to Judaism, but I can't imagine you'd be adopted by parents who want to raise you as a Jew but don't envision that including practicing Judaism\n\nPracticing Judaism doesn't make you Jewish. You're born Jewish, or you convert.", ">\n\n\nPrejudice isn't exclusively the purview of more orthodox Jews. My father in law is a convert and I've seen plenty of prejudice among conservative and reform Jews, thinking of converts as strange, or as tryhards, or as somehow \"less\" Jewish.\n\nThat's fair enough, but I don't think it takes away from my point to OP. The common opinion in the US is that you're \"American\" by virtue of citizenship ... the prejudiced minority opinion that you're \"less\" American if you don't \"look\" American doesn't really change that fact.\n\nPracticing Judaism doesn't make you Jewish. You're born Jewish, or you convert.\n\nWe're going in circles here, mate. If you're not born Jewish, how can you practice Judaism without converting to Judaism? You can't practice Judaism without being a Jew.", ">\n\n\nThat's fair enough, but I don't think it takes away from my point to OP\n\nYeah, that's literally the first thing I said.\n\nYou can't practice Judaism without being a Jew.\n\nOf course you can, because practicing Judaism and being Jewish are not the same thing. You can do all the things Jews do without being Jewish.\nPracticing = behaviors\nBeing = a status", ">\n\n\nOf course you can, because practicing Judaism and being Jewish are not the same thing. You can do all the things Jews do without being Jewish.\n\nDon't think that makes sense from a theological perspective. Judaism is a covenant between God and the Jews; you can follow many of the rules voluntarily if you like, but to be bound by and participate in the covenant requires being a Jew.\nMany of the practices also require being a Jew. You can't participate in a minyan if you aren't a Jew; there are many mitzvot you can't perform without a minyan. E.g., you can't recite the devarim shebikdushah.\nYour argument is kinda like saying, \"You can practice law without being a lawyer,\" and it's incorrect for the same reason.", ">\n\n\nyou can follow many of the rules voluntarily if you like\n\nThat's practicing Judaism. \n\nbut to be bound by and participate in the covenant requires being a Jew.\n\nAnd that's being Jewish. You totally get the difference. \n\nYou can't participate in a minyan if you aren't a Jew; there are many mitzvot you can't perform without a minyan.\n\nRight. You need to have a minyan, you don't need to be part of one. Women haven't always been allowed to be in a minyan, either, but they were still Jewish. \n\nYour argument is kinda like saying, \"You can practice law without being a lawyer,\" and it's incorrect for the same reason.\n\nYou actually can practice law without being a lawyer. That's what you're doing when you represent yourself in court.", ">\n\nWhile there will be a certain amount of racists saying stupid shit (often even more obnoxiously online) the premiss that everyone accept people of another ethnicity is pretty shake in the best of times, even for minorities or native people that might have lived as long, or longer than the majority ethnicity.\nA country like Japan. Known for pretty much being the example of a monoethnic culture, and being very xenophobic/discriminating against all foreigners... Well, I don't have a surprised face tbh.", ">\n\n\"If you are of white race, you should not be able to claim that you are of Japanese Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame.\"\nso whether or not you can do something depends on.... your race? wait a minute doesnt that sound like racism. also let me do this.\n\"If you are of black race, you should not be able to claim that you are of french Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame.\"\nthere if you made that adjustment your comment would be removed by the moderators because racism is only ok against white people\ni would give it a 50% chance that you dont even agree with the second statement.", ">\n\nI mean she didn’t claim she is “of Japanese culture” she literally said “I’m Japanese!” because her dad used to make business trips to Japan and she was exposed to some Japanese culture growing up in Cali. That’s a pretty absurd claim.", ">\n\nFor me, the shoe is on the other proverbial foot. I am Gitxsan (Native American) and was taken from my mother at the age of 18 months as part of the Sixties Scoop. Just before turning 3, I was adopted by a German immigrant family. My family brought me to Germany several times, I was fluent in German by age 5, and the city where my adopted mother hails from has accepted me as one of the family. By this logic, am I allowed to claim German heritage?", ">\n\nYou're allowed to do that regardless of race.", ">\n\nI think it blows your mind because you expected some kind of internally consistent logic. It's just emotional shallow reactions.\nSomething about white people making money off of non white people? On most mainstream websites that premise is enough for the vast majority of people to agree? Why? Because it sounds like a thing the good guys on our side would say.", ">\n\nI think intent goes a long way in this discussion. I live in Oklahoma. Native American culture is everywhere. You would be hard pressed to find a public place or private business that does not have its influence clearly on display. Many white people wear clothing and jewelry of Native influence. This is not looked at as appropriation. Our former governor, Mary Fallon, had a daughter. She has a band. It is an outright assault on the ears. But that aside, at one venue she decided to don a plastic war bonnet and dance around the stage, provoking the Natives protesting her act. Every Oklahoman with any brains can tell the difference between appropriating a culture and celebrating one. I think most of the country can too. It’s as easy as knowing right from wrong. Use good judgment.", ">\n\nEveryone should have the right to identify with and claim a culture that they feel a connection to, regardless of their race or ethnicity.", ">\n\nCulture is shaped by a variety of factors and should not be limited by one's race or ethnicity.", ">\n\nIt is important to consider the historical and societal context in which someone is claiming a certain culture, as cultural appropriation can be hurtful and disrespectful to marginalized cultures.", ">\n\nIt is important to have an open and respectful dialogue to navigate these complex issues and consider the perspectives of all involved parties.", ">\n\nWere you raised in Japan by missionary parents? Is your audience Japanese, or are you presenting to a mostly none Japanese culture?\nSo much is Just context.\nWhat was your position and where did your privilege come from inside of that culture?\nBlacks and whites were living in the same place but minsrel shows we're still pretty problematic.\nI could see a lot of times when it would be okay, but could you see any situation when it would not be?", ">\n\nRacial gatekeeping is for losers that never go outside and meet people", ">\n\nThat's the naturalization part of immigration.", ">\n\na side note to this post, without getting my own opinion involve its very common for japanese to belive all non japanese looking people to be foreing even when raised in the country so her case might be mixed with japanese prejudicy", ">\n\nFrom a black persons' context, there is a very vivid perspective about this topic in the tv series AtlantaFX S4E10 where Earn, Alfred and Van go to a black owned Japanese restaurant.", ">\n\nIt’s wise to be careful about generalities when abstracting groups of groups of groups like this. When you pull out to a thousand feet lens, humans are generally similar across these somewhat arbitrary divisions. But the close up differences are the whole point and are worth taking into consideration. Especially for when the conversation is so specific that named individuals are involved. \nI do not have anything to say about this one particularly, but arbitrarily ignoring differences does not make arbitrary differences go away. Two wrongs and a right and all that.", ">\n\nIf a baby is born and bred in America, no matter where their for fathers are from they are Americans. Whether they are Asian, African etc. my father was born in America of parents who immigrated from Denmark. He was American.\nHe could have called himself Danish American but American he remained, having served his country for 20 years in the Air force. Is there a law that states he could not have profited from his Danish decent. I don’t think so.", ">\n\nMarcus Samuelson claims his Ethiopian and Swedish heritage. He was born in Ethiopia and was adopted by Swedes and grew up there. He is now an American. How would he not claim his ethnicity or not claim where he grew up.", ">\n\nIn my opinion, if someone is adopted at a young age into a culture different from their parents, they can claim to be from that culture. Example: If a black baby from Kenya is adopted and raised into an Arabic household in Arabia, where he is raised with Arabic culture and is taught their customs and language, then they can claim to be of Arabic culture. What, they're supposed to identify with a Kenyan culture they have no personal ties to? They cannot, however, claim to be ethnically Arab, as that is different.", ">\n\nDepends on which culture. An American going to Africa, learning a trade/custom/whatever and then profiting is unethical given the history of the Western world's exploitation of the entire continent and how that's left most states in Africa. \nI think people understand the extreme example, but they take the polarized stance to every culture. Japan is an interesting one since its always been isolationist, and has never been conquered by a Western power. But there has been a history of anti-Asian, and specifically anti-Japanese sentiment.\nWith respect to appropriation in Japan, as an American it's likely hard to relate since we don't have a long history of customs and culture. But there is the fetishizing of Japanese culture. The closest thing we probably have is religion. The reverse example would be a non-Christian country dressing up as knock off Jesus. I'm sure people would be mad at that in some way.", ">\n\n\nDepends on which culture. An American going to Africa, learning a trade/custom/whatever and then profiting is unethical given the history of the Western world's exploitation of the entire continent and how that's left most states in Africa.\n\nWhy exactly is this unethical? Like, I understand that the history of the Western world's exploitation of the African continent is unethical... but why does that translate into it being wrong for, say, a white American chef to incorporate Ethiopian-inspired dishes into their cuisine, or for a white musician to play a traditional Nigerian instrument on an album? What harm is being done by either of these things?", ">\n\n\nbut why does that translate into it being wrong for, say, a white American chef to incorporate Ethiopian-inspired dishes into their cuisine,\n\nI spoke in absolutes but my intention wasn't to communicate it was an absolute. I think there's no single rule. I was more using Africa as the region as the extreme case with a history of exploitation, vs a country like Japan. \nFor example, a chef celebrating some Ethiopian dishes is much different than opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants back in the states. Obviously a lot of gray area in between.\nGenerally I view some instances as cultural tourism fueled by white guilt. An extreme case is white missionaries taking trips to Africa to \"work\" for 3 weeks, take pictures with black people, and then go home. Maybe they wear a traditional piece of clothing and discuss their time there.", ">\n\n\nFor example, a chef celebrating some Ethiopian dishes is much different than opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants back in the states. Obviously a lot of gray area in between.\n\nYou still seem to take it as axiomatic that there is some level of \"appropriation\" that is unethical. What would be wrong with me opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants? Whether or not the food is \"authentically Ethiopian\", what exactly is the harm here? Is Taco Bell appropriation? What if I just really like Ethiopian food and want to share my take on it? If customers like the food and are willing to buy it... what's the problem? Is it wrong to claim it's Ethiopian when it's just an Americanized dish inspired by Ethiopian cuisine? \nI'm not trying to give you a hard time here, I just honestly can't see why this would be \"unethical\" in any way. What harm is caused by taking inspiration from a foreign culture? Even if I make boatloads of profits, I haven't \"stolen\" anything away from the Ethiopian people, I'm just using some of their favored ingredients and making dishes similar to what they eat.", ">\n\nIf you are borne to two White parents and have lived in Japan since you were 3 months old; and all your playmates (and their parents) and peers in schools, sleepovers, birthday parties, at work and in churches are Japanese... then, regardless your genetic / ethnic heritage, you're Japanese.\nI think Tom Cruise's \"The Last Samurai\" kind of captured the essence of what I'm trying to say, nicely." ]

[ "Can you give some links that specify the \"recent Gwen Stefani controversy\" and clarify what position this \"progressive gaming website\" is taking? That context isn't particularly clear to me.\n\n... If you are of white race, you should not be able to claim that you are of Japanese Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame. ...\n\nPasta was invented in China. Does that mean that people shouldn't be allowed to sell pasta unless they're got some kind of Chinese cultural background? Should white Californians be prohibited from harvesting sea urchins and selling them to the Japanese because eating sea urchin is part of Japanese culture, but not so much part of white California culture?\nThere's also the \"people who deal with African culture stuff should be black\" stuff. We've had a bunch of generations of black people in the US, and Africa is a huge place with diverse cultures. Does it make sense to think that someone whose great great great grandfather was taken from Senegal has any meaningful connection to cultural artifacts from Tanzania thanks to that ancestry?", ">\n\nSure\nGwen Stefani controversy, again this is a starting point for the conversation, not the hypothetical.\nGwen Stefani Claims \"I`m Japanese\"\nWill quote the entire position posted on the gaming website:\n\nOne thing that's important to remember, is although there may be some valid instances where person of X \"race\" is raised in a specific country, by that country's people, with that country's culture, etc. and they identify with that + are accepted by those people as such, that still doesn't mean this person can then take things from that culture and use them for fame and profit, much less claim that you ARE that culture. EDIT: and yes I understand that's not even what truly took place with Gwen, I'm just basing this on it hypothetically being the case. She's not even in that category.", ">\n\nOk, so people are saying this stuff about \"even if the person was raised in Japan\" in the context of a discussion about Gwen Stefani's claims.\nSo, the first observation to make is that people aren't very good about thinking what they're saying through, and will often say silly things in the moment. \"Even if the person was raised in Japan\" position seems the the kind of thing that people might say when they're too busy being upset to think clearly.\nThere are certainly examples - like with war bonnets - where the cultural appropriation complaints clearly has to do with an existing culture, but it also seems like much of the \"cultural appropriation\" stuff has a lot more to do with how minorities feel as a minority population in the US than it has to do with a connection to an origin culture. Consider, for example, how strongly people react to the idea of Wakanda even when it's explicitly a fairy tale, or how there was a furor about \"My culture is not your prom dress!\" on one side of the Pacific Ocean but not on the other. If \"cultural appropriation\" is really about people's unhappiness with their status in the US, then it's not so silly to discount origins.", ">\n\nThank you! \nWhile did not change my mind on the viewpoint.\nYour answer was the most helpful in understanding why someone would have this opinion and where the feelings come from, Appreciated!", ">\n\nI would also argue that cultural appropriation comes with signal and noise.\nIf you have something in your culture that has meaning it's entirely possible for a larger outside group to swamp that meaning and change it. For example, you're bleeding. You see someone with a lab coat and stethoscope and you're like \"sweet, a doctor\" and then they look at you like you're crazy because that's, like, a fashion statement. It'd be quite jarring and you'd still be bleeding.\nOften times things like the war bonnet are the equivalent of military medals. There are laws against wearing medals that you didn't earn, why shouldn't there be rules against wearing the war bonnet that is earned the same way? That's also where a lot of the 'my culture isn't your prom dress'. It's not an issue where your culture is dominant and everyone would expect the person wearing equipment associated with doctors to actually be a doctor, but if you're in a minority position where people don't understand the connection then making people aware that they're doing something that will lead to problems is useful. \nClothing is communication. That's the whole point of fashion, saying something about who and what you are. There is signal, wearing clothes that communicate good information. There is noise, wearing something that is either actively lying or is misleading or is using a different and unusual meaning that will confuse people. I don't see how making a mockery of veterans using words or making a mockery of them by 'ironically' wearing their medals is any different.", ">\n\nThere is a huge difference between wearing a certain style of clothing that you like and wearing a recognised uniform of a soldier… that’s not a good faith comparison. You are comparing fashion to fraud.\nThe vast majority of people actually from the country of origin of a style love foreigners wearing it, they celebrate it. It’s almost always Whiney middle class westerners who complain on behalf of others, I speculate it’s from wanting to gain clout or based off some white saviour complex but I don’t actually know their motive for it. \nIf you’re very obviously not a part of that culture then there’s no issue with you wearing a war bonnet. If some American wore a kilt in my families colours I wouldn’t care at all because they’re not trying to lie, they just like kilts and are ignorant of the meaning of the colours. It’s hardly a big deal.", ">\n\nI'm not sure about the soldier thing. It's pretty common to dress as a soldier for fancy dress/halloween, and I don't think there's any harm in that, unless it's done in a way designed to be disrespectful. If someone were wearing a military uniform in order to pass themselves off as an actual soldier and benefit from it, I'd have problems with that too. But just wearing the uniform isn't necessarily a bad thing, I don't think.\nThat's probably how I feel about cultural appropriation in general. If you're taking things from another culture to make fun of it, or claim it as your own, then no, not good. But if you wear the clothes, or eat the food, or listen to music etc from another culture because you genuinely appreciate it, I don't see the problem. It's being respectful, it's sharing culture, maybe even showing people who haven't had chance to experience that culture some of the good things about it, and I can only see that as a good thing.\nI'm very uncomfortable with the idea that any sharing of culture between races is a bad thing, which seems to be how some people define cultural appropriation, as it seems to be reinforcing the idea that cultures shouldn't mix, and playing in to the hands of racists.", ">\n\nA war bonnet is less wearing a uniform, and more like wearing medals on that uniform. You have to earn the right to wear a war bonnet.\nI also think the issue of the authenticity of what you consume is important. If you are listening to music from an artist of a culture, or eating food or wearing clothes sourced from members of that culture (and who benefit from that consumption) that's very different from buying something stripped of context and mass-produced by someone who will not be investing any of their profit back into the group to whom it originally belonged.\nI went to a Desi wedding recently. The groom, a friend of mine, said everyone was invited to wear Indian clothing to some of the events, so I picked a kurta. I bought it from an Indian company and picked an appropriate style and color for my role in the wedding and what kind of event it was. In short, I made every attempt to engage with the culture on its own terms and avoid doing anything that would be a dick move. And a lot of this was possible because there are spheres in which Desi culture is dominant, so when I existed within them I was necessarily operating within acceptable boundaries. If I had done something rude or unacceptable, I would have been moved back into acceptability (very nicely, everyone was great, but the idea stands). This is not the context in which American Indian culture specifically is usually consumed. Much more common is a single item or set of them, used as accessories while operating within another culture that has historically shown significant scorn for the peoples from whom it is taking these objects.\nLike I said on another comment, it's an issue of not being an asshole. Are you treating the object (and what it symbolizes) with the respect it deserves? My kurta was just a piece of clothing, so the respect was in what I did with it. However, authentic war bonnets are handmade for the people who earned them. If you buy one just to wear, you've already been disrespectful to what it means to the people to whom it has actual significance. If someone at the wedding had told me I was doing something out of line, I would have stopped doing it. If I hadn't, I would have been an asshole. If native people are saying \"please don't make costumes out of war bonnets\" I feel like you're an asshole if you keep doing it.", ">\n\nIn the case of Gwen Stefani, she's a person who for all intents and purposes is white, and she's using Japanese culture as an aesthetic - that's not bad. She was also using stereotypes, misusing cultural terms and symbols, and had a group of Japanese girls follow her around almost as props -that's the bad part.\nIts not wrong to claim a culture you were raised in even if you aren't the race of the people around you. Many adoptees do. But Gwen isn't Japanese. She wasnt raised there either. She isn't joining in on a culture, like some people do when they are \"cultural appreciators\", she's simply taking small pieces, specifically pieces of the Harajuku fashion scene, and turning it into a brand, especially when Japanese Americans are often used as a \"model minority\". It's not an equal exchange between Gwen and Asian Americans because obviously she can just do whatever she wants whereas they can't ask her to stop.", ">\n\nI really don’t know about this case but as you framed it I still don’t see what is wrong with her actions. It sounds ‘marketing like’. There is no reason for there to be equal exchange between a person and a people, as long as someone isn’t harming others in some way playing the advantage is fine.", ">\n\nUsing stereotypes as a brand is harmful.", ">\n\nIs she using negative stereotypes? A stereotype is fine as long as it isn’t negative in nature. Culture is fundamentally a collection of stereotypes in a sense.", ">\n\nI don’t see how that article proves my stance is untrue. Also a side note don’t generally trust articles framed from a sensationalistic perspective, especially if it is also framed like a story. If this article does indeed prove my stance untrue or you yourself can, can you make it clear in a conceptual / abstract fashion while avoiding sensationalism? That would be helpful.", ">\n\nThe problem I see with your statement is because you start by saying X RACE but switch to saying culture. Those are not the same thing. \nCase in point, I lived in Barbados for a time. 95% of the population is Black, but about 3% is White and approx. 2% is South or East Asian. \nThe White Bajans were born, raised and live in Barbados. They speak with the local accent and are raised in the same cultural context of their Black peers (listen to the same music, celebrate the same festivities, enjoy the same food, etc.), so it would be fair to call themselves Islanders/Bajans, and to benefit from their culture. \nWhite Bajans however do not have experience being Black. They absolutely should not use their cultural background as justification to rip off Black experiences for profit or otherwise. \nA perhaps more well-known example would be celebrity Michael B Jordan ripping off the name \"J'Ouvert\" for his rum company. Despite being Black, Jordan is not from the Caribbean and aligning your product with a traditional Caribbean festival to drive consumers to derive profit is not ethical.", ">\n\nYeah I think that's the important distinction. They can absolutely use the culture they were brought up in, but saying because you were brought up in that culture you also have the racial experience doesn't follow.", ">\n\nBut all the “racial experience” stuff is Americans projecting their racist, invented concepts of race onto people in other countries. America isn’t the only country in the world, and the experience of a white American isn’t analogous to every person in the world an American would describe as white.", ">\n\nUh what? Yeah of course it isn't analogous, that's the entire point. What are you talking about?", ">\n\nThat would be a great point if it didn't totally misunderstand what cultural appropriation is. The problem isn't \"ownership\" or who did it first, it's that one culture persecuted another for this, but is now enjoying it consequence-free while the original injustice remains unaddressed.", ">\n\nHilarious this is the top comment when it doesn't even get the central concept right.", ">\n\nEasily digestible, non-threatening false info is often more popular than challenging truth.", ">\n\nThanks for the positive reply! \nI think this may be too extreme of an example that I won`t get anyone actually trying to change my mind, may help to expand the viewpoint to transracialism in general.", ">\n\nPart of the issue is your are conflating (not to be rude but) stupid people on the internet talking about something, and an actual esoteric academic subject.\nIf you wanted to learn, say, about quantum physics would you go down to your local bar and ask the patrons? You wouldn't. But the information you're using is so generic and nonspecific that its the equivalent. You're looking for a basic common denominator because you're arguing against an equivalent.\nIf you want to learn about an esoteric subject you read published peer reviewed reports on that subject that explores the nuance, issues, and information associated with the topic.\nThat's really your problem. And maybe you're trying to expressly dissuade tiktokers and twitter users from using it - I don't disagree there. Its the same thing that is happening with Critical Thinking - people uneducated on the topic are loud and opinionated and make shit up to see knowledgeable. But what you aren't doing is learning about the actual academic topic that coined cultural appropriation - what it really is. You're working, instead, in a framework of second hand information passed along by people unassociated with the topic. Given the comment section, they're also ill-informed about the definition, examples, and history. Those people are playing telephone and have non-academic motives.\nIn the case that you listed no academic would consider that cultural appropriation by the academic definition;\n\nthe unacknowledged or inappropriate adoption of the customs, practices, ideas, etc. of one people or society by members of another and typically more dominant people or society.\n\nThe definition immediately defines the word as having to be unacknowledged and/or inappropriate. Literally being adopted isn't inappropriate.", ">\n\nFrom my experience with (even double blind) peer review, I don't understand why the practice has garnered such an adoring reputation, as it provides no assurance of Truth. \nThat said, I agree that it's worth learning what experts have to say. Just don't take it as gospel.", ">\n\nIt’s not about truth - it’s about people actually well educated on tangential but associated topics being able to contribute and discuss a topic in great detail using their education and experience with the topic. Pretty much everything you won’t find in non-academic realms. \nA benefit would be - and not to be rude, but an opportunity for example - not having to explain that it’s not about “truth” as a side topic to general academia.", ">\n\nYou'll have to be clearer. I don't understand what you're saying.\nI don't see how it's an opportunity to not be burdened with foundational methodological questions. I wish discussions could be more efficient in that way. I don't think it's possible unless you have people who have already accepted certain things. That's difficult is a forum like this.\nAs I understand it, peer review mostly exploded after WW2. While the volume of papers rapidly accelerated, the quality per paper did not, IMO.", ">\n\nTL;DR: There is no reason to believe Stefani is concurrent with the hypothetical you’ve provided in your title.\nIf people are accepted by a group as part of that group, it doesn’t really matter what out-groups have to say about it; moreover, it shouldn’t matter. The way you’ve set this up is a truism: out-groups don’t generally define in-groups if they aren’t part of that in-group; that’s not how in/out-groups work. In this example, if Gwen is accepted as a Japanese person, she’s either “accepted by Japanese people as a Japanese person,” or “she’s Japanese”. The distinction isn’t really worth fighting over by out-groups because they don’t define the terms.\nWith all that said, I think you should consider specific examples versus hypotheticals here, because hypotheticals aren’t important, but cultural examples definitely are. For example, you’ve described this situation as your example, but it’s not an example of your hypothetical: she’s not accepted by Japanese people as Japanese, and if she were, I don’t think this would be news; moreover, Stefani’s publicist said in a statement about Stefani that the claim was not made in earnest (i.e., “she didn’t mean literally Japanese”). Further still, Stefani is a ‘serial appropriator’, and that’s a known value. There’s no reason to think this situation is different, and her publicist noted that she didn’t claim what people are saying she claimed—specifically, she said the words “I’m Japanese”, but didn’t make the claim that she was, in fact, Japanese (again, despite literally saying it).", ">\n\n\nshe’s not accepted by Japanese people as Japanese\n\nHow could she be? They generally still have a blood-and-soil concept of who can be Japanese.", ">\n\nI’m not saying she is. In fact, that’s exactly what I am saying: this is a super bad example of what OP is trying to say.", ">\n\nThis is a pretty interesting topic.\nI am of Asian background but let's say I paid a Ukrainian grandmother to teach me how to make authentic Ukrainian perogies and I could ultimately master/replicate the recipe.\nA) Is it ethical that I sell these perogies and market it as authentic to people in my motherland, and\nB) Is it ethical if I sell then within Ukraine?\nTo me, under question A) I think it's fair, because you're providing a service that people would otherwise not be able to realistically receive so it promotes globalization. I would also say it's not cultural appropriation, if the recipe is an authentic and you're not making any false or grossly exaggerated representations.\nQuestion B) on the other hand, is a bit harder to answer and would depend on quite a few specifics. However, in general, to me this teeters more towards the unethical side, because you're not providing a novel service, and thus, you're using this recipe with the greater intention of making money.\nI'm not really sure what your position is, but would be interested to see how you interpret the above.", ">\n\nLet’s say you’re a native Ukrainian who “uses a pierogi recipe with the greater intention of making money”. Do you think that’s unethical too?\nIf no: then what’s wrong with a foreigner/non-Ukrainian doing it?\nIf yes: then your answers to both questions has nothing to do with cultural appropriation!", ">\n\n\nLet’s say you’re a native Ukrainian “uses a pierogi recipe with the greater intention of making money”. Do you think that’s unethical too?\nIf no: then what’s wrong with a foreigner/non-Ukrainian doing it?\n\nThe first scenario wouldn't be cultural appropriation because they are of that culture. The second scenario would fit into the category of cultural appropriation (barring some exceptions, such as if they had grown up within that culture).", ">\n\nTrue. But we already established with your first example that cultural appropriation is not always bad.", ">\n\nI don't know if you read the interview with Gwen Stefani, but really the problem is her commodification of Japanese culture for her benefit while she herself was not raised in Japan (from everything I've seen) and was not Japanese. Even then, there's another aspect, regardless of being raised in Japan if you are ethically white you simply can't face the exact same experiences. If that white person raised in Japan migrates to America they will not face the same sort of discrimination an ethnically Japanese person would face. \nI am half native and it shows, I was raised in America in a very white dominant environment, however I am incapable of claiming to truly be white regardless of that fact. Regardless of everything else, when someone sees me I will not be a white person. I may like the same things, use the same idioms, have the same accent, etc, but I will forever be seen and treated as something else. That is the reality of racism that many ethnically white people don't recognize because, like Gwen Stefani, they never had to truly face the repercussions for being a minority in that facet.", ">\n\nFrom your title, you give a lot of prerequisites. They must be:\n\nX race\nraised in Y country\nBy Y country's people\nWith Y countries culture\nIdentify with Y country's identity\nAccepted by Y country's people\n\nAnd then they can do what they want with that culture.\nWhich of these, if not met, are dealbreakers?\nWhat if they meet all of the above but are not \"raised by Y country's people\", for example. Are they still allowed to take elements from that culture?", ">\n\nThanks for the thought-provoking follow-up, I went with the extreme example, because that is what the source was setting as criteria. \nI`m sure I would be even much more liberal with the definition, but have not worked out my own viewpoint on where the line would be that you can call yourself a \"Culture\" \nIf someone`s lived experiences make them feel that they are that culture and they have any of the above (Besides only \"Identify with Y country's identity\" just), I guess I would find it acceptable to use that culture. \n------\n-Obviously there are degrees: if you lived in an embassy compound for a year, never left the compound, calling yourself that Y country can seem to be stretching it.", ">\n\nRace ≠ Nationality\nIf I, an African moved to Sweden and had a child who grew up in and spoke fluent Swedish language, was culturally Swedish, it still wouldn't make them Swede. Not unless their father was Swedish...\nThey'd be Swedish the nationality, but not an Ethnic Swede by race. .", ">\n\nIs Swedish an ethnicity?", ">\n\nThere are always going to be degrees of gradation to this, rather than some strict sharp line of delineation. For some people, to some observers, in some situations there will be labels that apply or don't and it comes down to how far outside of the sort of \"central cluster\" of that population a person is.\nThough I'd also say that looking like a member of a particular culture's vastly dominant race is itself a part of being in that culture, particularly with aspects of how that culture deals with self-image and interacts with outsiders. So there's going to be at least some part of what's generally part of Japanese culture which a white person will always be on the outside of, no matter what they do or what their background is, at least with respect to how things currently work. Whether this becomes relevant to a question (either internally or externally) of identity is going to come down to a lot of details of the specific situation.", ">\n\nIf you're born and raised in Japan, you're Japanese, regardless of your skin color, race, etc...\nAlso, culture is nurture, not nature. If you're raised in Japan, you're going to act culturally Japanese.", ">\n\nThanks for example!\nHonestly an even better example may be (Who does not use her otherness):\nKiko Mizuhara\nShe fits the criteria above:\nBorn In Dallas Texas, to a Korean Mother and Texan Father.\nRaised in Japan / Japanese schools. Only spoke Japanese growing up.\nCertainly on a list of largest fashion influencers in Japan now.\nCan she not call herself Japanese?", ">\n\nWentz, Becky, Thane Camus (whose nationality is American but was raised in Japan) etc. are all Japanese as far as I'm concerned, but it's also insincere to say they haven't leveraged their otherness to stand out and get ahead. \nThis is not meant to be judgemental, just a simple statement of fact.", ">\n\nRight or wrong, how does this affect the CMV either way? It doesn't seem to challenge or support their viewpoint, it's tangential.", ">\n\nIt doesn't; it's just supposed to make you feel bad and shut up.", ">\n\nWell first, I don’t believe Stefani grew up in Japan. If that was true then yeah she would have a better claim to being culturally Japanese. \nSecondly, Japanese culture is not like America were you can immigrate and become fully integrated. There are Koreans living in Japan whose great great grandparents were brought over as laborers before WW 2 and who are still not seen as true Nihonjin. It’s a specific mix of racial, ethnic, and cultural traits that make you Japanese. You can’t just adopt the identity, even if you grew up in Japan. \nTLDR you can’t claim a cultural identity unless that culture says you can be part of it. And with Japanese culture in particular, it’s incredibly hard if not impossible to join the club after birth.\nEdit: my statements are based on my experiences living 3 years in Japan and looking into Japanese citizenship through marriage.", ">\n\n\nWell first, I don’t believe Stefani grew up in Japan. If that was true then yeah she would have a better claim to being culturally Japanese.\n\nShe claimed that her father went on business trips to Japan, and that she was exposed to some Japanese culture while growing up in California.", ">\n\nIs this about the cat song or have she gone of the rails?", ">\n\nShe recently did an interview where she claimed she was Japanese because her dad went there a lot and she likes Japanese culture", ">\n\nI mean that describes tens of thousands of people. Well millions if you include every anime or Kurosawa fan. IMHO you need to at least have a long-term resident's visa and be fluent in Japanese to call yourself culturally Japanese.", ">\n\nThe biggest issue here is working with an incredibly hypothetical situation that may or may not have ever happened, and then asking to have a fully formed black or white view of it. Especially while using vague language to describe the scenario.\nIf a Japanese baby is adopted out to a German couple and spends their entire life in Germany, speaking German, etc, does your view also mean they must forgo any cultural ties to their birthplace and birth parents?", ">\n\nNope, My view is all for first / second / third-culture kids. \nThe German situation, I would be fine with them having cultural ties to birthplace / birth parents. In no way would expect it of them though. \nI`m personally a third culture kid, and while I`m nowhere close to the hypothetical, I have met and been friends with people that fit in the above hypothetical example (Again mostly, Korean / Chinese)", ">\n\nThat seems like a different view, since your post is pretty specifically about adoption", ">\n\nWhat if we take a non-white people example and try to run through this logic?\nImagine a Nigerian couple moves to Norway. They learn English, they adopt the Norwegian culture, they learn the history and adopt the expected social practices. This couple has a child. This child is raised Norwegian, speaks English etc.\nIn this hypothetical example, is the child Norwegian? \nThe problem with philosophy is that it tends to break down when we bring it into the real world. People can exist in gray space between labels. The child can be seen as both Norwegian and not and most people just judge what they think is most important in the category. Or maybe it depends on what is meant in context when discussion of Norwegian identity comes up. Is simply being born there enough or is there something more ephemeral to the identity?", ">\n\nYes, that child is Norwegian with Nigerian heritage. Norwegian is the language they'd be speaking though.", ">\n\nThat is your opinion. That wouldn't be everyone's opinion. That is my point.\nAlso, yeah, dumb mistake on my part. Was half-awake.", ">\n\nImo anyone who thinks otherwise has a whiff of racism.", ">\n\nLuckily, you aren't the arbiter of everyone's identities.", ">\n\nThe combination of culture, heritage and norms you're talking about is generally understood as \"ethnicity\"... \"race\", insofar as it still has any meaning, is basically a proxy for \"looks a certain way / has a certain set of genetics\".\nSo here's the thing: whether or not you belong to an ethnicity boils down to:\n\nWhether you identify with that ethnicity\nWhether enough folks of that ethnicity accept your identification with it\n\nThat's as simple as it is ... it's not a taxonomic structure, it's a social structure, and that means that it's defined socially.\nJapan is an extremely \"racially\" homogenous place (\\~98%), which means that being \"ethnically\" Japanese is highly associated with looking similar to most Japanese people. That means that someone who is adopted and raised by Japanese people, grew up in Japan, speaks Japanese, but doesn't look Japanese might not be accepted by most Japanese people as being ethnically Japanese.\nTo be clear: I don't think a bunch of (presumably non-Japanese) people on a progressive gaming website get to say one way or the other whether a \"white\" person can say they're Japanese ... Japanese people get to say that, because they define how their ethnicity works.\nHere's an alternate example: folks of my own ethnic group (I'm Jewish) generally accepts someone as Jewish if:\n\nTheir mother was Jewish\nThey were raised as a Jew\nThey convert to Judaism (the religion associated with ethnic Jews. Not every Jew practices Judaism, but everyone who practices Judaism is a Jew).\n\nEvery ethnic group has slightly different rules and norms, and that's a-ok.", ">\n\n\nHere's an alternate example: folks of my own ethnic group (I'm Jewish) generally accepts someone as Jewish if:\n\nTheir mother was Jewish\nThey were raised as a Jew\nThey convert to Judaism (the religion associated with ethnic Jews. Not every Jew practices Judaism, but everyone who practices Judaism is a Jew).\n\n\nNot that it's super relevant to your point, but it is not true that converts are accepted as Jewish by all Jews, nor is it true that someone raised as a Jew with no other inherited or ritualized connection to Judaism is Jewish.", ">\n\n\nNot that it's super relevant to your point, but it is not true that converts are accepted as Jewish by all Jews\n\nIt's certainly true of most Jews -- I never said everyone who belongs to an ethnicity has to expect you, just most. Jews, too, can be jerks.\n\nnor is it true that someone raised as a Jew with no other inherited or ritualized connection to Judaism is Jewish.\n\nI'm not sure how you can be raised as a Jew without any \"ritualized connection to Judaism\".", ">\n\n\nIt's certainly true of most Jews\n\nSure, but its not as uncontroversial or factual as you laid it out. \n\nI'm not sure how you can be raised as a Jew without any \"ritualized connection to Judaism\".\n\nI can't think of a scenario where it really makes sense for this to happen, but if neither of your parents are Jewish and you didn't convert, then by the rules of Judaism, you are not Jewish regardless of how you were raised or what you practice.", ">\n\n\nSure, but its not as uncontroversial or factual as you laid it out. \n\nIt's uncontroversial to every group of secular, reform and conservative Jews I've met or interacted with -- I am aware that Haredim may view it differently, but am less familiar with their beliefs.\n\nI can't think of a scenario where it really makes sense for this to happen, but if neither of your parents are Jewish and you didn't convert, then by the rules of Judaism, you are not Jewish regardless of how you were raised or what you practice.\n\nSure, if you're not born a Jew, then you can't practice Judaism without converting to Judaism, but I can't imagine you'd be adopted by parents who want to raise you as a Jew but don't envision that including practicing Judaism", ">\n\n\nIt's uncontroversial to every group of secular, reform and conservative Jews I've met or interacted with -- I am aware that Haredim may view it differently, but am less familiar with their beliefs.\n\nPrejudice isn't exclusively the purview of more orthodox Jews. My father in law is a convert and I've seen plenty of prejudice among conservative and reform Jews, thinking of converts as strange, or as tryhards, or as somehow \"less\" Jewish. \n\nSure, if you're not born a Jew, then you can't practice Judaism without converting to Judaism, but I can't imagine you'd be adopted by parents who want to raise you as a Jew but don't envision that including practicing Judaism\n\nPracticing Judaism doesn't make you Jewish. You're born Jewish, or you convert.", ">\n\n\nPrejudice isn't exclusively the purview of more orthodox Jews. My father in law is a convert and I've seen plenty of prejudice among conservative and reform Jews, thinking of converts as strange, or as tryhards, or as somehow \"less\" Jewish.\n\nThat's fair enough, but I don't think it takes away from my point to OP. The common opinion in the US is that you're \"American\" by virtue of citizenship ... the prejudiced minority opinion that you're \"less\" American if you don't \"look\" American doesn't really change that fact.\n\nPracticing Judaism doesn't make you Jewish. You're born Jewish, or you convert.\n\nWe're going in circles here, mate. If you're not born Jewish, how can you practice Judaism without converting to Judaism? You can't practice Judaism without being a Jew.", ">\n\n\nThat's fair enough, but I don't think it takes away from my point to OP\n\nYeah, that's literally the first thing I said.\n\nYou can't practice Judaism without being a Jew.\n\nOf course you can, because practicing Judaism and being Jewish are not the same thing. You can do all the things Jews do without being Jewish.\nPracticing = behaviors\nBeing = a status", ">\n\n\nOf course you can, because practicing Judaism and being Jewish are not the same thing. You can do all the things Jews do without being Jewish.\n\nDon't think that makes sense from a theological perspective. Judaism is a covenant between God and the Jews; you can follow many of the rules voluntarily if you like, but to be bound by and participate in the covenant requires being a Jew.\nMany of the practices also require being a Jew. You can't participate in a minyan if you aren't a Jew; there are many mitzvot you can't perform without a minyan. E.g., you can't recite the devarim shebikdushah.\nYour argument is kinda like saying, \"You can practice law without being a lawyer,\" and it's incorrect for the same reason.", ">\n\n\nyou can follow many of the rules voluntarily if you like\n\nThat's practicing Judaism. \n\nbut to be bound by and participate in the covenant requires being a Jew.\n\nAnd that's being Jewish. You totally get the difference. \n\nYou can't participate in a minyan if you aren't a Jew; there are many mitzvot you can't perform without a minyan.\n\nRight. You need to have a minyan, you don't need to be part of one. Women haven't always been allowed to be in a minyan, either, but they were still Jewish. \n\nYour argument is kinda like saying, \"You can practice law without being a lawyer,\" and it's incorrect for the same reason.\n\nYou actually can practice law without being a lawyer. That's what you're doing when you represent yourself in court.", ">\n\nWhile there will be a certain amount of racists saying stupid shit (often even more obnoxiously online) the premiss that everyone accept people of another ethnicity is pretty shake in the best of times, even for minorities or native people that might have lived as long, or longer than the majority ethnicity.\nA country like Japan. Known for pretty much being the example of a monoethnic culture, and being very xenophobic/discriminating against all foreigners... Well, I don't have a surprised face tbh.", ">\n\n\"If you are of white race, you should not be able to claim that you are of Japanese Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame.\"\nso whether or not you can do something depends on.... your race? wait a minute doesnt that sound like racism. also let me do this.\n\"If you are of black race, you should not be able to claim that you are of french Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame.\"\nthere if you made that adjustment your comment would be removed by the moderators because racism is only ok against white people\ni would give it a 50% chance that you dont even agree with the second statement.", ">\n\nI mean she didn’t claim she is “of Japanese culture” she literally said “I’m Japanese!” because her dad used to make business trips to Japan and she was exposed to some Japanese culture growing up in Cali. That’s a pretty absurd claim.", ">\n\nFor me, the shoe is on the other proverbial foot. I am Gitxsan (Native American) and was taken from my mother at the age of 18 months as part of the Sixties Scoop. Just before turning 3, I was adopted by a German immigrant family. My family brought me to Germany several times, I was fluent in German by age 5, and the city where my adopted mother hails from has accepted me as one of the family. By this logic, am I allowed to claim German heritage?", ">\n\nYou're allowed to do that regardless of race.", ">\n\nI think it blows your mind because you expected some kind of internally consistent logic. It's just emotional shallow reactions.\nSomething about white people making money off of non white people? On most mainstream websites that premise is enough for the vast majority of people to agree? Why? Because it sounds like a thing the good guys on our side would say.", ">\n\nI think intent goes a long way in this discussion. I live in Oklahoma. Native American culture is everywhere. You would be hard pressed to find a public place or private business that does not have its influence clearly on display. Many white people wear clothing and jewelry of Native influence. This is not looked at as appropriation. Our former governor, Mary Fallon, had a daughter. She has a band. It is an outright assault on the ears. But that aside, at one venue she decided to don a plastic war bonnet and dance around the stage, provoking the Natives protesting her act. Every Oklahoman with any brains can tell the difference between appropriating a culture and celebrating one. I think most of the country can too. It’s as easy as knowing right from wrong. Use good judgment.", ">\n\nEveryone should have the right to identify with and claim a culture that they feel a connection to, regardless of their race or ethnicity.", ">\n\nCulture is shaped by a variety of factors and should not be limited by one's race or ethnicity.", ">\n\nIt is important to consider the historical and societal context in which someone is claiming a certain culture, as cultural appropriation can be hurtful and disrespectful to marginalized cultures.", ">\n\nIt is important to have an open and respectful dialogue to navigate these complex issues and consider the perspectives of all involved parties.", ">\n\nWere you raised in Japan by missionary parents? Is your audience Japanese, or are you presenting to a mostly none Japanese culture?\nSo much is Just context.\nWhat was your position and where did your privilege come from inside of that culture?\nBlacks and whites were living in the same place but minsrel shows we're still pretty problematic.\nI could see a lot of times when it would be okay, but could you see any situation when it would not be?", ">\n\nRacial gatekeeping is for losers that never go outside and meet people", ">\n\nThat's the naturalization part of immigration.", ">\n\na side note to this post, without getting my own opinion involve its very common for japanese to belive all non japanese looking people to be foreing even when raised in the country so her case might be mixed with japanese prejudicy", ">\n\nFrom a black persons' context, there is a very vivid perspective about this topic in the tv series AtlantaFX S4E10 where Earn, Alfred and Van go to a black owned Japanese restaurant.", ">\n\nIt’s wise to be careful about generalities when abstracting groups of groups of groups like this. When you pull out to a thousand feet lens, humans are generally similar across these somewhat arbitrary divisions. But the close up differences are the whole point and are worth taking into consideration. Especially for when the conversation is so specific that named individuals are involved. \nI do not have anything to say about this one particularly, but arbitrarily ignoring differences does not make arbitrary differences go away. Two wrongs and a right and all that.", ">\n\nIf a baby is born and bred in America, no matter where their for fathers are from they are Americans. Whether they are Asian, African etc. my father was born in America of parents who immigrated from Denmark. He was American.\nHe could have called himself Danish American but American he remained, having served his country for 20 years in the Air force. Is there a law that states he could not have profited from his Danish decent. I don’t think so.", ">\n\nMarcus Samuelson claims his Ethiopian and Swedish heritage. He was born in Ethiopia and was adopted by Swedes and grew up there. He is now an American. How would he not claim his ethnicity or not claim where he grew up.", ">\n\nIn my opinion, if someone is adopted at a young age into a culture different from their parents, they can claim to be from that culture. Example: If a black baby from Kenya is adopted and raised into an Arabic household in Arabia, where he is raised with Arabic culture and is taught their customs and language, then they can claim to be of Arabic culture. What, they're supposed to identify with a Kenyan culture they have no personal ties to? They cannot, however, claim to be ethnically Arab, as that is different.", ">\n\nDepends on which culture. An American going to Africa, learning a trade/custom/whatever and then profiting is unethical given the history of the Western world's exploitation of the entire continent and how that's left most states in Africa. \nI think people understand the extreme example, but they take the polarized stance to every culture. Japan is an interesting one since its always been isolationist, and has never been conquered by a Western power. But there has been a history of anti-Asian, and specifically anti-Japanese sentiment.\nWith respect to appropriation in Japan, as an American it's likely hard to relate since we don't have a long history of customs and culture. But there is the fetishizing of Japanese culture. The closest thing we probably have is religion. The reverse example would be a non-Christian country dressing up as knock off Jesus. I'm sure people would be mad at that in some way.", ">\n\n\nDepends on which culture. An American going to Africa, learning a trade/custom/whatever and then profiting is unethical given the history of the Western world's exploitation of the entire continent and how that's left most states in Africa.\n\nWhy exactly is this unethical? Like, I understand that the history of the Western world's exploitation of the African continent is unethical... but why does that translate into it being wrong for, say, a white American chef to incorporate Ethiopian-inspired dishes into their cuisine, or for a white musician to play a traditional Nigerian instrument on an album? What harm is being done by either of these things?", ">\n\n\nbut why does that translate into it being wrong for, say, a white American chef to incorporate Ethiopian-inspired dishes into their cuisine,\n\nI spoke in absolutes but my intention wasn't to communicate it was an absolute. I think there's no single rule. I was more using Africa as the region as the extreme case with a history of exploitation, vs a country like Japan. \nFor example, a chef celebrating some Ethiopian dishes is much different than opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants back in the states. Obviously a lot of gray area in between.\nGenerally I view some instances as cultural tourism fueled by white guilt. An extreme case is white missionaries taking trips to Africa to \"work\" for 3 weeks, take pictures with black people, and then go home. Maybe they wear a traditional piece of clothing and discuss their time there.", ">\n\n\nFor example, a chef celebrating some Ethiopian dishes is much different than opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants back in the states. Obviously a lot of gray area in between.\n\nYou still seem to take it as axiomatic that there is some level of \"appropriation\" that is unethical. What would be wrong with me opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants? Whether or not the food is \"authentically Ethiopian\", what exactly is the harm here? Is Taco Bell appropriation? What if I just really like Ethiopian food and want to share my take on it? If customers like the food and are willing to buy it... what's the problem? Is it wrong to claim it's Ethiopian when it's just an Americanized dish inspired by Ethiopian cuisine? \nI'm not trying to give you a hard time here, I just honestly can't see why this would be \"unethical\" in any way. What harm is caused by taking inspiration from a foreign culture? Even if I make boatloads of profits, I haven't \"stolen\" anything away from the Ethiopian people, I'm just using some of their favored ingredients and making dishes similar to what they eat.", ">\n\nIf you are borne to two White parents and have lived in Japan since you were 3 months old; and all your playmates (and their parents) and peers in schools, sleepovers, birthday parties, at work and in churches are Japanese... then, regardless your genetic / ethnic heritage, you're Japanese.\nI think Tom Cruise's \"The Last Samurai\" kind of captured the essence of what I'm trying to say, nicely.", ">\n\nAmusingly I know someone who is half Japanese by birth, speaks Japanese, and worked there for a few years but Japanese people in Japan often called him a racial slur and told him he wasn't Japanese. Some cultures are more inclusive and open to new members than others." ]

[ "Can you give some links that specify the \"recent Gwen Stefani controversy\" and clarify what position this \"progressive gaming website\" is taking? That context isn't particularly clear to me.\n\n... If you are of white race, you should not be able to claim that you are of Japanese Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame. ...\n\nPasta was invented in China. Does that mean that people shouldn't be allowed to sell pasta unless they're got some kind of Chinese cultural background? Should white Californians be prohibited from harvesting sea urchins and selling them to the Japanese because eating sea urchin is part of Japanese culture, but not so much part of white California culture?\nThere's also the \"people who deal with African culture stuff should be black\" stuff. We've had a bunch of generations of black people in the US, and Africa is a huge place with diverse cultures. Does it make sense to think that someone whose great great great grandfather was taken from Senegal has any meaningful connection to cultural artifacts from Tanzania thanks to that ancestry?", ">\n\nSure\nGwen Stefani controversy, again this is a starting point for the conversation, not the hypothetical.\nGwen Stefani Claims \"I`m Japanese\"\nWill quote the entire position posted on the gaming website:\n\nOne thing that's important to remember, is although there may be some valid instances where person of X \"race\" is raised in a specific country, by that country's people, with that country's culture, etc. and they identify with that + are accepted by those people as such, that still doesn't mean this person can then take things from that culture and use them for fame and profit, much less claim that you ARE that culture. EDIT: and yes I understand that's not even what truly took place with Gwen, I'm just basing this on it hypothetically being the case. She's not even in that category.", ">\n\nOk, so people are saying this stuff about \"even if the person was raised in Japan\" in the context of a discussion about Gwen Stefani's claims.\nSo, the first observation to make is that people aren't very good about thinking what they're saying through, and will often say silly things in the moment. \"Even if the person was raised in Japan\" position seems the the kind of thing that people might say when they're too busy being upset to think clearly.\nThere are certainly examples - like with war bonnets - where the cultural appropriation complaints clearly has to do with an existing culture, but it also seems like much of the \"cultural appropriation\" stuff has a lot more to do with how minorities feel as a minority population in the US than it has to do with a connection to an origin culture. Consider, for example, how strongly people react to the idea of Wakanda even when it's explicitly a fairy tale, or how there was a furor about \"My culture is not your prom dress!\" on one side of the Pacific Ocean but not on the other. If \"cultural appropriation\" is really about people's unhappiness with their status in the US, then it's not so silly to discount origins.", ">\n\nThank you! \nWhile did not change my mind on the viewpoint.\nYour answer was the most helpful in understanding why someone would have this opinion and where the feelings come from, Appreciated!", ">\n\nI would also argue that cultural appropriation comes with signal and noise.\nIf you have something in your culture that has meaning it's entirely possible for a larger outside group to swamp that meaning and change it. For example, you're bleeding. You see someone with a lab coat and stethoscope and you're like \"sweet, a doctor\" and then they look at you like you're crazy because that's, like, a fashion statement. It'd be quite jarring and you'd still be bleeding.\nOften times things like the war bonnet are the equivalent of military medals. There are laws against wearing medals that you didn't earn, why shouldn't there be rules against wearing the war bonnet that is earned the same way? That's also where a lot of the 'my culture isn't your prom dress'. It's not an issue where your culture is dominant and everyone would expect the person wearing equipment associated with doctors to actually be a doctor, but if you're in a minority position where people don't understand the connection then making people aware that they're doing something that will lead to problems is useful. \nClothing is communication. That's the whole point of fashion, saying something about who and what you are. There is signal, wearing clothes that communicate good information. There is noise, wearing something that is either actively lying or is misleading or is using a different and unusual meaning that will confuse people. I don't see how making a mockery of veterans using words or making a mockery of them by 'ironically' wearing their medals is any different.", ">\n\nThere is a huge difference between wearing a certain style of clothing that you like and wearing a recognised uniform of a soldier… that’s not a good faith comparison. You are comparing fashion to fraud.\nThe vast majority of people actually from the country of origin of a style love foreigners wearing it, they celebrate it. It’s almost always Whiney middle class westerners who complain on behalf of others, I speculate it’s from wanting to gain clout or based off some white saviour complex but I don’t actually know their motive for it. \nIf you’re very obviously not a part of that culture then there’s no issue with you wearing a war bonnet. If some American wore a kilt in my families colours I wouldn’t care at all because they’re not trying to lie, they just like kilts and are ignorant of the meaning of the colours. It’s hardly a big deal.", ">\n\nI'm not sure about the soldier thing. It's pretty common to dress as a soldier for fancy dress/halloween, and I don't think there's any harm in that, unless it's done in a way designed to be disrespectful. If someone were wearing a military uniform in order to pass themselves off as an actual soldier and benefit from it, I'd have problems with that too. But just wearing the uniform isn't necessarily a bad thing, I don't think.\nThat's probably how I feel about cultural appropriation in general. If you're taking things from another culture to make fun of it, or claim it as your own, then no, not good. But if you wear the clothes, or eat the food, or listen to music etc from another culture because you genuinely appreciate it, I don't see the problem. It's being respectful, it's sharing culture, maybe even showing people who haven't had chance to experience that culture some of the good things about it, and I can only see that as a good thing.\nI'm very uncomfortable with the idea that any sharing of culture between races is a bad thing, which seems to be how some people define cultural appropriation, as it seems to be reinforcing the idea that cultures shouldn't mix, and playing in to the hands of racists.", ">\n\nA war bonnet is less wearing a uniform, and more like wearing medals on that uniform. You have to earn the right to wear a war bonnet.\nI also think the issue of the authenticity of what you consume is important. If you are listening to music from an artist of a culture, or eating food or wearing clothes sourced from members of that culture (and who benefit from that consumption) that's very different from buying something stripped of context and mass-produced by someone who will not be investing any of their profit back into the group to whom it originally belonged.\nI went to a Desi wedding recently. The groom, a friend of mine, said everyone was invited to wear Indian clothing to some of the events, so I picked a kurta. I bought it from an Indian company and picked an appropriate style and color for my role in the wedding and what kind of event it was. In short, I made every attempt to engage with the culture on its own terms and avoid doing anything that would be a dick move. And a lot of this was possible because there are spheres in which Desi culture is dominant, so when I existed within them I was necessarily operating within acceptable boundaries. If I had done something rude or unacceptable, I would have been moved back into acceptability (very nicely, everyone was great, but the idea stands). This is not the context in which American Indian culture specifically is usually consumed. Much more common is a single item or set of them, used as accessories while operating within another culture that has historically shown significant scorn for the peoples from whom it is taking these objects.\nLike I said on another comment, it's an issue of not being an asshole. Are you treating the object (and what it symbolizes) with the respect it deserves? My kurta was just a piece of clothing, so the respect was in what I did with it. However, authentic war bonnets are handmade for the people who earned them. If you buy one just to wear, you've already been disrespectful to what it means to the people to whom it has actual significance. If someone at the wedding had told me I was doing something out of line, I would have stopped doing it. If I hadn't, I would have been an asshole. If native people are saying \"please don't make costumes out of war bonnets\" I feel like you're an asshole if you keep doing it.", ">\n\nIn the case of Gwen Stefani, she's a person who for all intents and purposes is white, and she's using Japanese culture as an aesthetic - that's not bad. She was also using stereotypes, misusing cultural terms and symbols, and had a group of Japanese girls follow her around almost as props -that's the bad part.\nIts not wrong to claim a culture you were raised in even if you aren't the race of the people around you. Many adoptees do. But Gwen isn't Japanese. She wasnt raised there either. She isn't joining in on a culture, like some people do when they are \"cultural appreciators\", she's simply taking small pieces, specifically pieces of the Harajuku fashion scene, and turning it into a brand, especially when Japanese Americans are often used as a \"model minority\". It's not an equal exchange between Gwen and Asian Americans because obviously she can just do whatever she wants whereas they can't ask her to stop.", ">\n\nI really don’t know about this case but as you framed it I still don’t see what is wrong with her actions. It sounds ‘marketing like’. There is no reason for there to be equal exchange between a person and a people, as long as someone isn’t harming others in some way playing the advantage is fine.", ">\n\nUsing stereotypes as a brand is harmful.", ">\n\nIs she using negative stereotypes? A stereotype is fine as long as it isn’t negative in nature. Culture is fundamentally a collection of stereotypes in a sense.", ">\n\nI don’t see how that article proves my stance is untrue. Also a side note don’t generally trust articles framed from a sensationalistic perspective, especially if it is also framed like a story. If this article does indeed prove my stance untrue or you yourself can, can you make it clear in a conceptual / abstract fashion while avoiding sensationalism? That would be helpful.", ">\n\nThe problem I see with your statement is because you start by saying X RACE but switch to saying culture. Those are not the same thing. \nCase in point, I lived in Barbados for a time. 95% of the population is Black, but about 3% is White and approx. 2% is South or East Asian. \nThe White Bajans were born, raised and live in Barbados. They speak with the local accent and are raised in the same cultural context of their Black peers (listen to the same music, celebrate the same festivities, enjoy the same food, etc.), so it would be fair to call themselves Islanders/Bajans, and to benefit from their culture. \nWhite Bajans however do not have experience being Black. They absolutely should not use their cultural background as justification to rip off Black experiences for profit or otherwise. \nA perhaps more well-known example would be celebrity Michael B Jordan ripping off the name \"J'Ouvert\" for his rum company. Despite being Black, Jordan is not from the Caribbean and aligning your product with a traditional Caribbean festival to drive consumers to derive profit is not ethical.", ">\n\nYeah I think that's the important distinction. They can absolutely use the culture they were brought up in, but saying because you were brought up in that culture you also have the racial experience doesn't follow.", ">\n\nBut all the “racial experience” stuff is Americans projecting their racist, invented concepts of race onto people in other countries. America isn’t the only country in the world, and the experience of a white American isn’t analogous to every person in the world an American would describe as white.", ">\n\nUh what? Yeah of course it isn't analogous, that's the entire point. What are you talking about?", ">\n\nThat would be a great point if it didn't totally misunderstand what cultural appropriation is. The problem isn't \"ownership\" or who did it first, it's that one culture persecuted another for this, but is now enjoying it consequence-free while the original injustice remains unaddressed.", ">\n\nHilarious this is the top comment when it doesn't even get the central concept right.", ">\n\nEasily digestible, non-threatening false info is often more popular than challenging truth.", ">\n\nThanks for the positive reply! \nI think this may be too extreme of an example that I won`t get anyone actually trying to change my mind, may help to expand the viewpoint to transracialism in general.", ">\n\nPart of the issue is your are conflating (not to be rude but) stupid people on the internet talking about something, and an actual esoteric academic subject.\nIf you wanted to learn, say, about quantum physics would you go down to your local bar and ask the patrons? You wouldn't. But the information you're using is so generic and nonspecific that its the equivalent. You're looking for a basic common denominator because you're arguing against an equivalent.\nIf you want to learn about an esoteric subject you read published peer reviewed reports on that subject that explores the nuance, issues, and information associated with the topic.\nThat's really your problem. And maybe you're trying to expressly dissuade tiktokers and twitter users from using it - I don't disagree there. Its the same thing that is happening with Critical Thinking - people uneducated on the topic are loud and opinionated and make shit up to see knowledgeable. But what you aren't doing is learning about the actual academic topic that coined cultural appropriation - what it really is. You're working, instead, in a framework of second hand information passed along by people unassociated with the topic. Given the comment section, they're also ill-informed about the definition, examples, and history. Those people are playing telephone and have non-academic motives.\nIn the case that you listed no academic would consider that cultural appropriation by the academic definition;\n\nthe unacknowledged or inappropriate adoption of the customs, practices, ideas, etc. of one people or society by members of another and typically more dominant people or society.\n\nThe definition immediately defines the word as having to be unacknowledged and/or inappropriate. Literally being adopted isn't inappropriate.", ">\n\nFrom my experience with (even double blind) peer review, I don't understand why the practice has garnered such an adoring reputation, as it provides no assurance of Truth. \nThat said, I agree that it's worth learning what experts have to say. Just don't take it as gospel.", ">\n\nIt’s not about truth - it’s about people actually well educated on tangential but associated topics being able to contribute and discuss a topic in great detail using their education and experience with the topic. Pretty much everything you won’t find in non-academic realms. \nA benefit would be - and not to be rude, but an opportunity for example - not having to explain that it’s not about “truth” as a side topic to general academia.", ">\n\nYou'll have to be clearer. I don't understand what you're saying.\nI don't see how it's an opportunity to not be burdened with foundational methodological questions. I wish discussions could be more efficient in that way. I don't think it's possible unless you have people who have already accepted certain things. That's difficult is a forum like this.\nAs I understand it, peer review mostly exploded after WW2. While the volume of papers rapidly accelerated, the quality per paper did not, IMO.", ">\n\nTL;DR: There is no reason to believe Stefani is concurrent with the hypothetical you’ve provided in your title.\nIf people are accepted by a group as part of that group, it doesn’t really matter what out-groups have to say about it; moreover, it shouldn’t matter. The way you’ve set this up is a truism: out-groups don’t generally define in-groups if they aren’t part of that in-group; that’s not how in/out-groups work. In this example, if Gwen is accepted as a Japanese person, she’s either “accepted by Japanese people as a Japanese person,” or “she’s Japanese”. The distinction isn’t really worth fighting over by out-groups because they don’t define the terms.\nWith all that said, I think you should consider specific examples versus hypotheticals here, because hypotheticals aren’t important, but cultural examples definitely are. For example, you’ve described this situation as your example, but it’s not an example of your hypothetical: she’s not accepted by Japanese people as Japanese, and if she were, I don’t think this would be news; moreover, Stefani’s publicist said in a statement about Stefani that the claim was not made in earnest (i.e., “she didn’t mean literally Japanese”). Further still, Stefani is a ‘serial appropriator’, and that’s a known value. There’s no reason to think this situation is different, and her publicist noted that she didn’t claim what people are saying she claimed—specifically, she said the words “I’m Japanese”, but didn’t make the claim that she was, in fact, Japanese (again, despite literally saying it).", ">\n\n\nshe’s not accepted by Japanese people as Japanese\n\nHow could she be? They generally still have a blood-and-soil concept of who can be Japanese.", ">\n\nI’m not saying she is. In fact, that’s exactly what I am saying: this is a super bad example of what OP is trying to say.", ">\n\nThis is a pretty interesting topic.\nI am of Asian background but let's say I paid a Ukrainian grandmother to teach me how to make authentic Ukrainian perogies and I could ultimately master/replicate the recipe.\nA) Is it ethical that I sell these perogies and market it as authentic to people in my motherland, and\nB) Is it ethical if I sell then within Ukraine?\nTo me, under question A) I think it's fair, because you're providing a service that people would otherwise not be able to realistically receive so it promotes globalization. I would also say it's not cultural appropriation, if the recipe is an authentic and you're not making any false or grossly exaggerated representations.\nQuestion B) on the other hand, is a bit harder to answer and would depend on quite a few specifics. However, in general, to me this teeters more towards the unethical side, because you're not providing a novel service, and thus, you're using this recipe with the greater intention of making money.\nI'm not really sure what your position is, but would be interested to see how you interpret the above.", ">\n\nLet’s say you’re a native Ukrainian who “uses a pierogi recipe with the greater intention of making money”. Do you think that’s unethical too?\nIf no: then what’s wrong with a foreigner/non-Ukrainian doing it?\nIf yes: then your answers to both questions has nothing to do with cultural appropriation!", ">\n\n\nLet’s say you’re a native Ukrainian “uses a pierogi recipe with the greater intention of making money”. Do you think that’s unethical too?\nIf no: then what’s wrong with a foreigner/non-Ukrainian doing it?\n\nThe first scenario wouldn't be cultural appropriation because they are of that culture. The second scenario would fit into the category of cultural appropriation (barring some exceptions, such as if they had grown up within that culture).", ">\n\nTrue. But we already established with your first example that cultural appropriation is not always bad.", ">\n\nI don't know if you read the interview with Gwen Stefani, but really the problem is her commodification of Japanese culture for her benefit while she herself was not raised in Japan (from everything I've seen) and was not Japanese. Even then, there's another aspect, regardless of being raised in Japan if you are ethically white you simply can't face the exact same experiences. If that white person raised in Japan migrates to America they will not face the same sort of discrimination an ethnically Japanese person would face. \nI am half native and it shows, I was raised in America in a very white dominant environment, however I am incapable of claiming to truly be white regardless of that fact. Regardless of everything else, when someone sees me I will not be a white person. I may like the same things, use the same idioms, have the same accent, etc, but I will forever be seen and treated as something else. That is the reality of racism that many ethnically white people don't recognize because, like Gwen Stefani, they never had to truly face the repercussions for being a minority in that facet.", ">\n\nFrom your title, you give a lot of prerequisites. They must be:\n\nX race\nraised in Y country\nBy Y country's people\nWith Y countries culture\nIdentify with Y country's identity\nAccepted by Y country's people\n\nAnd then they can do what they want with that culture.\nWhich of these, if not met, are dealbreakers?\nWhat if they meet all of the above but are not \"raised by Y country's people\", for example. Are they still allowed to take elements from that culture?", ">\n\nThanks for the thought-provoking follow-up, I went with the extreme example, because that is what the source was setting as criteria. \nI`m sure I would be even much more liberal with the definition, but have not worked out my own viewpoint on where the line would be that you can call yourself a \"Culture\" \nIf someone`s lived experiences make them feel that they are that culture and they have any of the above (Besides only \"Identify with Y country's identity\" just), I guess I would find it acceptable to use that culture. \n------\n-Obviously there are degrees: if you lived in an embassy compound for a year, never left the compound, calling yourself that Y country can seem to be stretching it.", ">\n\nRace ≠ Nationality\nIf I, an African moved to Sweden and had a child who grew up in and spoke fluent Swedish language, was culturally Swedish, it still wouldn't make them Swede. Not unless their father was Swedish...\nThey'd be Swedish the nationality, but not an Ethnic Swede by race. .", ">\n\nIs Swedish an ethnicity?", ">\n\nThere are always going to be degrees of gradation to this, rather than some strict sharp line of delineation. For some people, to some observers, in some situations there will be labels that apply or don't and it comes down to how far outside of the sort of \"central cluster\" of that population a person is.\nThough I'd also say that looking like a member of a particular culture's vastly dominant race is itself a part of being in that culture, particularly with aspects of how that culture deals with self-image and interacts with outsiders. So there's going to be at least some part of what's generally part of Japanese culture which a white person will always be on the outside of, no matter what they do or what their background is, at least with respect to how things currently work. Whether this becomes relevant to a question (either internally or externally) of identity is going to come down to a lot of details of the specific situation.", ">\n\nIf you're born and raised in Japan, you're Japanese, regardless of your skin color, race, etc...\nAlso, culture is nurture, not nature. If you're raised in Japan, you're going to act culturally Japanese.", ">\n\nThanks for example!\nHonestly an even better example may be (Who does not use her otherness):\nKiko Mizuhara\nShe fits the criteria above:\nBorn In Dallas Texas, to a Korean Mother and Texan Father.\nRaised in Japan / Japanese schools. Only spoke Japanese growing up.\nCertainly on a list of largest fashion influencers in Japan now.\nCan she not call herself Japanese?", ">\n\nWentz, Becky, Thane Camus (whose nationality is American but was raised in Japan) etc. are all Japanese as far as I'm concerned, but it's also insincere to say they haven't leveraged their otherness to stand out and get ahead. \nThis is not meant to be judgemental, just a simple statement of fact.", ">\n\nRight or wrong, how does this affect the CMV either way? It doesn't seem to challenge or support their viewpoint, it's tangential.", ">\n\nIt doesn't; it's just supposed to make you feel bad and shut up.", ">\n\nWell first, I don’t believe Stefani grew up in Japan. If that was true then yeah she would have a better claim to being culturally Japanese. \nSecondly, Japanese culture is not like America were you can immigrate and become fully integrated. There are Koreans living in Japan whose great great grandparents were brought over as laborers before WW 2 and who are still not seen as true Nihonjin. It’s a specific mix of racial, ethnic, and cultural traits that make you Japanese. You can’t just adopt the identity, even if you grew up in Japan. \nTLDR you can’t claim a cultural identity unless that culture says you can be part of it. And with Japanese culture in particular, it’s incredibly hard if not impossible to join the club after birth.\nEdit: my statements are based on my experiences living 3 years in Japan and looking into Japanese citizenship through marriage.", ">\n\n\nWell first, I don’t believe Stefani grew up in Japan. If that was true then yeah she would have a better claim to being culturally Japanese.\n\nShe claimed that her father went on business trips to Japan, and that she was exposed to some Japanese culture while growing up in California.", ">\n\nIs this about the cat song or have she gone of the rails?", ">\n\nShe recently did an interview where she claimed she was Japanese because her dad went there a lot and she likes Japanese culture", ">\n\nI mean that describes tens of thousands of people. Well millions if you include every anime or Kurosawa fan. IMHO you need to at least have a long-term resident's visa and be fluent in Japanese to call yourself culturally Japanese.", ">\n\nThe biggest issue here is working with an incredibly hypothetical situation that may or may not have ever happened, and then asking to have a fully formed black or white view of it. Especially while using vague language to describe the scenario.\nIf a Japanese baby is adopted out to a German couple and spends their entire life in Germany, speaking German, etc, does your view also mean they must forgo any cultural ties to their birthplace and birth parents?", ">\n\nNope, My view is all for first / second / third-culture kids. \nThe German situation, I would be fine with them having cultural ties to birthplace / birth parents. In no way would expect it of them though. \nI`m personally a third culture kid, and while I`m nowhere close to the hypothetical, I have met and been friends with people that fit in the above hypothetical example (Again mostly, Korean / Chinese)", ">\n\nThat seems like a different view, since your post is pretty specifically about adoption", ">\n\nWhat if we take a non-white people example and try to run through this logic?\nImagine a Nigerian couple moves to Norway. They learn English, they adopt the Norwegian culture, they learn the history and adopt the expected social practices. This couple has a child. This child is raised Norwegian, speaks English etc.\nIn this hypothetical example, is the child Norwegian? \nThe problem with philosophy is that it tends to break down when we bring it into the real world. People can exist in gray space between labels. The child can be seen as both Norwegian and not and most people just judge what they think is most important in the category. Or maybe it depends on what is meant in context when discussion of Norwegian identity comes up. Is simply being born there enough or is there something more ephemeral to the identity?", ">\n\nYes, that child is Norwegian with Nigerian heritage. Norwegian is the language they'd be speaking though.", ">\n\nThat is your opinion. That wouldn't be everyone's opinion. That is my point.\nAlso, yeah, dumb mistake on my part. Was half-awake.", ">\n\nImo anyone who thinks otherwise has a whiff of racism.", ">\n\nLuckily, you aren't the arbiter of everyone's identities.", ">\n\nThe combination of culture, heritage and norms you're talking about is generally understood as \"ethnicity\"... \"race\", insofar as it still has any meaning, is basically a proxy for \"looks a certain way / has a certain set of genetics\".\nSo here's the thing: whether or not you belong to an ethnicity boils down to:\n\nWhether you identify with that ethnicity\nWhether enough folks of that ethnicity accept your identification with it\n\nThat's as simple as it is ... it's not a taxonomic structure, it's a social structure, and that means that it's defined socially.\nJapan is an extremely \"racially\" homogenous place (\\~98%), which means that being \"ethnically\" Japanese is highly associated with looking similar to most Japanese people. That means that someone who is adopted and raised by Japanese people, grew up in Japan, speaks Japanese, but doesn't look Japanese might not be accepted by most Japanese people as being ethnically Japanese.\nTo be clear: I don't think a bunch of (presumably non-Japanese) people on a progressive gaming website get to say one way or the other whether a \"white\" person can say they're Japanese ... Japanese people get to say that, because they define how their ethnicity works.\nHere's an alternate example: folks of my own ethnic group (I'm Jewish) generally accepts someone as Jewish if:\n\nTheir mother was Jewish\nThey were raised as a Jew\nThey convert to Judaism (the religion associated with ethnic Jews. Not every Jew practices Judaism, but everyone who practices Judaism is a Jew).\n\nEvery ethnic group has slightly different rules and norms, and that's a-ok.", ">\n\n\nHere's an alternate example: folks of my own ethnic group (I'm Jewish) generally accepts someone as Jewish if:\n\nTheir mother was Jewish\nThey were raised as a Jew\nThey convert to Judaism (the religion associated with ethnic Jews. Not every Jew practices Judaism, but everyone who practices Judaism is a Jew).\n\n\nNot that it's super relevant to your point, but it is not true that converts are accepted as Jewish by all Jews, nor is it true that someone raised as a Jew with no other inherited or ritualized connection to Judaism is Jewish.", ">\n\n\nNot that it's super relevant to your point, but it is not true that converts are accepted as Jewish by all Jews\n\nIt's certainly true of most Jews -- I never said everyone who belongs to an ethnicity has to expect you, just most. Jews, too, can be jerks.\n\nnor is it true that someone raised as a Jew with no other inherited or ritualized connection to Judaism is Jewish.\n\nI'm not sure how you can be raised as a Jew without any \"ritualized connection to Judaism\".", ">\n\n\nIt's certainly true of most Jews\n\nSure, but its not as uncontroversial or factual as you laid it out. \n\nI'm not sure how you can be raised as a Jew without any \"ritualized connection to Judaism\".\n\nI can't think of a scenario where it really makes sense for this to happen, but if neither of your parents are Jewish and you didn't convert, then by the rules of Judaism, you are not Jewish regardless of how you were raised or what you practice.", ">\n\n\nSure, but its not as uncontroversial or factual as you laid it out. \n\nIt's uncontroversial to every group of secular, reform and conservative Jews I've met or interacted with -- I am aware that Haredim may view it differently, but am less familiar with their beliefs.\n\nI can't think of a scenario where it really makes sense for this to happen, but if neither of your parents are Jewish and you didn't convert, then by the rules of Judaism, you are not Jewish regardless of how you were raised or what you practice.\n\nSure, if you're not born a Jew, then you can't practice Judaism without converting to Judaism, but I can't imagine you'd be adopted by parents who want to raise you as a Jew but don't envision that including practicing Judaism", ">\n\n\nIt's uncontroversial to every group of secular, reform and conservative Jews I've met or interacted with -- I am aware that Haredim may view it differently, but am less familiar with their beliefs.\n\nPrejudice isn't exclusively the purview of more orthodox Jews. My father in law is a convert and I've seen plenty of prejudice among conservative and reform Jews, thinking of converts as strange, or as tryhards, or as somehow \"less\" Jewish. \n\nSure, if you're not born a Jew, then you can't practice Judaism without converting to Judaism, but I can't imagine you'd be adopted by parents who want to raise you as a Jew but don't envision that including practicing Judaism\n\nPracticing Judaism doesn't make you Jewish. You're born Jewish, or you convert.", ">\n\n\nPrejudice isn't exclusively the purview of more orthodox Jews. My father in law is a convert and I've seen plenty of prejudice among conservative and reform Jews, thinking of converts as strange, or as tryhards, or as somehow \"less\" Jewish.\n\nThat's fair enough, but I don't think it takes away from my point to OP. The common opinion in the US is that you're \"American\" by virtue of citizenship ... the prejudiced minority opinion that you're \"less\" American if you don't \"look\" American doesn't really change that fact.\n\nPracticing Judaism doesn't make you Jewish. You're born Jewish, or you convert.\n\nWe're going in circles here, mate. If you're not born Jewish, how can you practice Judaism without converting to Judaism? You can't practice Judaism without being a Jew.", ">\n\n\nThat's fair enough, but I don't think it takes away from my point to OP\n\nYeah, that's literally the first thing I said.\n\nYou can't practice Judaism without being a Jew.\n\nOf course you can, because practicing Judaism and being Jewish are not the same thing. You can do all the things Jews do without being Jewish.\nPracticing = behaviors\nBeing = a status", ">\n\n\nOf course you can, because practicing Judaism and being Jewish are not the same thing. You can do all the things Jews do without being Jewish.\n\nDon't think that makes sense from a theological perspective. Judaism is a covenant between God and the Jews; you can follow many of the rules voluntarily if you like, but to be bound by and participate in the covenant requires being a Jew.\nMany of the practices also require being a Jew. You can't participate in a minyan if you aren't a Jew; there are many mitzvot you can't perform without a minyan. E.g., you can't recite the devarim shebikdushah.\nYour argument is kinda like saying, \"You can practice law without being a lawyer,\" and it's incorrect for the same reason.", ">\n\n\nyou can follow many of the rules voluntarily if you like\n\nThat's practicing Judaism. \n\nbut to be bound by and participate in the covenant requires being a Jew.\n\nAnd that's being Jewish. You totally get the difference. \n\nYou can't participate in a minyan if you aren't a Jew; there are many mitzvot you can't perform without a minyan.\n\nRight. You need to have a minyan, you don't need to be part of one. Women haven't always been allowed to be in a minyan, either, but they were still Jewish. \n\nYour argument is kinda like saying, \"You can practice law without being a lawyer,\" and it's incorrect for the same reason.\n\nYou actually can practice law without being a lawyer. That's what you're doing when you represent yourself in court.", ">\n\nWhile there will be a certain amount of racists saying stupid shit (often even more obnoxiously online) the premiss that everyone accept people of another ethnicity is pretty shake in the best of times, even for minorities or native people that might have lived as long, or longer than the majority ethnicity.\nA country like Japan. Known for pretty much being the example of a monoethnic culture, and being very xenophobic/discriminating against all foreigners... Well, I don't have a surprised face tbh.", ">\n\n\"If you are of white race, you should not be able to claim that you are of Japanese Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame.\"\nso whether or not you can do something depends on.... your race? wait a minute doesnt that sound like racism. also let me do this.\n\"If you are of black race, you should not be able to claim that you are of french Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame.\"\nthere if you made that adjustment your comment would be removed by the moderators because racism is only ok against white people\ni would give it a 50% chance that you dont even agree with the second statement.", ">\n\nI mean she didn’t claim she is “of Japanese culture” she literally said “I’m Japanese!” because her dad used to make business trips to Japan and she was exposed to some Japanese culture growing up in Cali. That’s a pretty absurd claim.", ">\n\nFor me, the shoe is on the other proverbial foot. I am Gitxsan (Native American) and was taken from my mother at the age of 18 months as part of the Sixties Scoop. Just before turning 3, I was adopted by a German immigrant family. My family brought me to Germany several times, I was fluent in German by age 5, and the city where my adopted mother hails from has accepted me as one of the family. By this logic, am I allowed to claim German heritage?", ">\n\nYou're allowed to do that regardless of race.", ">\n\nI think it blows your mind because you expected some kind of internally consistent logic. It's just emotional shallow reactions.\nSomething about white people making money off of non white people? On most mainstream websites that premise is enough for the vast majority of people to agree? Why? Because it sounds like a thing the good guys on our side would say.", ">\n\nI think intent goes a long way in this discussion. I live in Oklahoma. Native American culture is everywhere. You would be hard pressed to find a public place or private business that does not have its influence clearly on display. Many white people wear clothing and jewelry of Native influence. This is not looked at as appropriation. Our former governor, Mary Fallon, had a daughter. She has a band. It is an outright assault on the ears. But that aside, at one venue she decided to don a plastic war bonnet and dance around the stage, provoking the Natives protesting her act. Every Oklahoman with any brains can tell the difference between appropriating a culture and celebrating one. I think most of the country can too. It’s as easy as knowing right from wrong. Use good judgment.", ">\n\nEveryone should have the right to identify with and claim a culture that they feel a connection to, regardless of their race or ethnicity.", ">\n\nCulture is shaped by a variety of factors and should not be limited by one's race or ethnicity.", ">\n\nIt is important to consider the historical and societal context in which someone is claiming a certain culture, as cultural appropriation can be hurtful and disrespectful to marginalized cultures.", ">\n\nIt is important to have an open and respectful dialogue to navigate these complex issues and consider the perspectives of all involved parties.", ">\n\nWere you raised in Japan by missionary parents? Is your audience Japanese, or are you presenting to a mostly none Japanese culture?\nSo much is Just context.\nWhat was your position and where did your privilege come from inside of that culture?\nBlacks and whites were living in the same place but minsrel shows we're still pretty problematic.\nI could see a lot of times when it would be okay, but could you see any situation when it would not be?", ">\n\nRacial gatekeeping is for losers that never go outside and meet people", ">\n\nThat's the naturalization part of immigration.", ">\n\na side note to this post, without getting my own opinion involve its very common for japanese to belive all non japanese looking people to be foreing even when raised in the country so her case might be mixed with japanese prejudicy", ">\n\nFrom a black persons' context, there is a very vivid perspective about this topic in the tv series AtlantaFX S4E10 where Earn, Alfred and Van go to a black owned Japanese restaurant.", ">\n\nIt’s wise to be careful about generalities when abstracting groups of groups of groups like this. When you pull out to a thousand feet lens, humans are generally similar across these somewhat arbitrary divisions. But the close up differences are the whole point and are worth taking into consideration. Especially for when the conversation is so specific that named individuals are involved. \nI do not have anything to say about this one particularly, but arbitrarily ignoring differences does not make arbitrary differences go away. Two wrongs and a right and all that.", ">\n\nIf a baby is born and bred in America, no matter where their for fathers are from they are Americans. Whether they are Asian, African etc. my father was born in America of parents who immigrated from Denmark. He was American.\nHe could have called himself Danish American but American he remained, having served his country for 20 years in the Air force. Is there a law that states he could not have profited from his Danish decent. I don’t think so.", ">\n\nMarcus Samuelson claims his Ethiopian and Swedish heritage. He was born in Ethiopia and was adopted by Swedes and grew up there. He is now an American. How would he not claim his ethnicity or not claim where he grew up.", ">\n\nIn my opinion, if someone is adopted at a young age into a culture different from their parents, they can claim to be from that culture. Example: If a black baby from Kenya is adopted and raised into an Arabic household in Arabia, where he is raised with Arabic culture and is taught their customs and language, then they can claim to be of Arabic culture. What, they're supposed to identify with a Kenyan culture they have no personal ties to? They cannot, however, claim to be ethnically Arab, as that is different.", ">\n\nDepends on which culture. An American going to Africa, learning a trade/custom/whatever and then profiting is unethical given the history of the Western world's exploitation of the entire continent and how that's left most states in Africa. \nI think people understand the extreme example, but they take the polarized stance to every culture. Japan is an interesting one since its always been isolationist, and has never been conquered by a Western power. But there has been a history of anti-Asian, and specifically anti-Japanese sentiment.\nWith respect to appropriation in Japan, as an American it's likely hard to relate since we don't have a long history of customs and culture. But there is the fetishizing of Japanese culture. The closest thing we probably have is religion. The reverse example would be a non-Christian country dressing up as knock off Jesus. I'm sure people would be mad at that in some way.", ">\n\n\nDepends on which culture. An American going to Africa, learning a trade/custom/whatever and then profiting is unethical given the history of the Western world's exploitation of the entire continent and how that's left most states in Africa.\n\nWhy exactly is this unethical? Like, I understand that the history of the Western world's exploitation of the African continent is unethical... but why does that translate into it being wrong for, say, a white American chef to incorporate Ethiopian-inspired dishes into their cuisine, or for a white musician to play a traditional Nigerian instrument on an album? What harm is being done by either of these things?", ">\n\n\nbut why does that translate into it being wrong for, say, a white American chef to incorporate Ethiopian-inspired dishes into their cuisine,\n\nI spoke in absolutes but my intention wasn't to communicate it was an absolute. I think there's no single rule. I was more using Africa as the region as the extreme case with a history of exploitation, vs a country like Japan. \nFor example, a chef celebrating some Ethiopian dishes is much different than opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants back in the states. Obviously a lot of gray area in between.\nGenerally I view some instances as cultural tourism fueled by white guilt. An extreme case is white missionaries taking trips to Africa to \"work\" for 3 weeks, take pictures with black people, and then go home. Maybe they wear a traditional piece of clothing and discuss their time there.", ">\n\n\nFor example, a chef celebrating some Ethiopian dishes is much different than opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants back in the states. Obviously a lot of gray area in between.\n\nYou still seem to take it as axiomatic that there is some level of \"appropriation\" that is unethical. What would be wrong with me opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants? Whether or not the food is \"authentically Ethiopian\", what exactly is the harm here? Is Taco Bell appropriation? What if I just really like Ethiopian food and want to share my take on it? If customers like the food and are willing to buy it... what's the problem? Is it wrong to claim it's Ethiopian when it's just an Americanized dish inspired by Ethiopian cuisine? \nI'm not trying to give you a hard time here, I just honestly can't see why this would be \"unethical\" in any way. What harm is caused by taking inspiration from a foreign culture? Even if I make boatloads of profits, I haven't \"stolen\" anything away from the Ethiopian people, I'm just using some of their favored ingredients and making dishes similar to what they eat.", ">\n\nIf you are borne to two White parents and have lived in Japan since you were 3 months old; and all your playmates (and their parents) and peers in schools, sleepovers, birthday parties, at work and in churches are Japanese... then, regardless your genetic / ethnic heritage, you're Japanese.\nI think Tom Cruise's \"The Last Samurai\" kind of captured the essence of what I'm trying to say, nicely.", ">\n\nAmusingly I know someone who is half Japanese by birth, speaks Japanese, and worked there for a few years but Japanese people in Japan often called him a racial slur and told him he wasn't Japanese. Some cultures are more inclusive and open to new members than others.", ">\n\nI don't think folks like Gwen Stefani should give a rat's ass what others think.\nI don't think you should get remotely exercised about this topic.\nJust obsessing over this is silly.\nFrank Sinatra sang \"Ol' Man River\" with similar pronunciations as Paul Robeson's\nI'm a white dude with frizzy hair.... if I decide to wear dreadlocks, who cares about what 'progressive gaming websites' decide?!. That is your problem. You are trying to convince lib...eh 'progressives' that your views make sense.\nI think your views are already too politically correct. \nGwen Stefani can sell sushi if she wants. So can Jewish guys from Queens. \nChange your view to 'screw what the progressives think and adopt any cultural trope you wish'" ]

[ "Can you give some links that specify the \"recent Gwen Stefani controversy\" and clarify what position this \"progressive gaming website\" is taking? That context isn't particularly clear to me.\n\n... If you are of white race, you should not be able to claim that you are of Japanese Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame. ...\n\nPasta was invented in China. Does that mean that people shouldn't be allowed to sell pasta unless they're got some kind of Chinese cultural background? Should white Californians be prohibited from harvesting sea urchins and selling them to the Japanese because eating sea urchin is part of Japanese culture, but not so much part of white California culture?\nThere's also the \"people who deal with African culture stuff should be black\" stuff. We've had a bunch of generations of black people in the US, and Africa is a huge place with diverse cultures. Does it make sense to think that someone whose great great great grandfather was taken from Senegal has any meaningful connection to cultural artifacts from Tanzania thanks to that ancestry?", ">\n\nSure\nGwen Stefani controversy, again this is a starting point for the conversation, not the hypothetical.\nGwen Stefani Claims \"I`m Japanese\"\nWill quote the entire position posted on the gaming website:\n\nOne thing that's important to remember, is although there may be some valid instances where person of X \"race\" is raised in a specific country, by that country's people, with that country's culture, etc. and they identify with that + are accepted by those people as such, that still doesn't mean this person can then take things from that culture and use them for fame and profit, much less claim that you ARE that culture. EDIT: and yes I understand that's not even what truly took place with Gwen, I'm just basing this on it hypothetically being the case. She's not even in that category.", ">\n\nOk, so people are saying this stuff about \"even if the person was raised in Japan\" in the context of a discussion about Gwen Stefani's claims.\nSo, the first observation to make is that people aren't very good about thinking what they're saying through, and will often say silly things in the moment. \"Even if the person was raised in Japan\" position seems the the kind of thing that people might say when they're too busy being upset to think clearly.\nThere are certainly examples - like with war bonnets - where the cultural appropriation complaints clearly has to do with an existing culture, but it also seems like much of the \"cultural appropriation\" stuff has a lot more to do with how minorities feel as a minority population in the US than it has to do with a connection to an origin culture. Consider, for example, how strongly people react to the idea of Wakanda even when it's explicitly a fairy tale, or how there was a furor about \"My culture is not your prom dress!\" on one side of the Pacific Ocean but not on the other. If \"cultural appropriation\" is really about people's unhappiness with their status in the US, then it's not so silly to discount origins.", ">\n\nThank you! \nWhile did not change my mind on the viewpoint.\nYour answer was the most helpful in understanding why someone would have this opinion and where the feelings come from, Appreciated!", ">\n\nI would also argue that cultural appropriation comes with signal and noise.\nIf you have something in your culture that has meaning it's entirely possible for a larger outside group to swamp that meaning and change it. For example, you're bleeding. You see someone with a lab coat and stethoscope and you're like \"sweet, a doctor\" and then they look at you like you're crazy because that's, like, a fashion statement. It'd be quite jarring and you'd still be bleeding.\nOften times things like the war bonnet are the equivalent of military medals. There are laws against wearing medals that you didn't earn, why shouldn't there be rules against wearing the war bonnet that is earned the same way? That's also where a lot of the 'my culture isn't your prom dress'. It's not an issue where your culture is dominant and everyone would expect the person wearing equipment associated with doctors to actually be a doctor, but if you're in a minority position where people don't understand the connection then making people aware that they're doing something that will lead to problems is useful. \nClothing is communication. That's the whole point of fashion, saying something about who and what you are. There is signal, wearing clothes that communicate good information. There is noise, wearing something that is either actively lying or is misleading or is using a different and unusual meaning that will confuse people. I don't see how making a mockery of veterans using words or making a mockery of them by 'ironically' wearing their medals is any different.", ">\n\nThere is a huge difference between wearing a certain style of clothing that you like and wearing a recognised uniform of a soldier… that’s not a good faith comparison. You are comparing fashion to fraud.\nThe vast majority of people actually from the country of origin of a style love foreigners wearing it, they celebrate it. It’s almost always Whiney middle class westerners who complain on behalf of others, I speculate it’s from wanting to gain clout or based off some white saviour complex but I don’t actually know their motive for it. \nIf you’re very obviously not a part of that culture then there’s no issue with you wearing a war bonnet. If some American wore a kilt in my families colours I wouldn’t care at all because they’re not trying to lie, they just like kilts and are ignorant of the meaning of the colours. It’s hardly a big deal.", ">\n\nI'm not sure about the soldier thing. It's pretty common to dress as a soldier for fancy dress/halloween, and I don't think there's any harm in that, unless it's done in a way designed to be disrespectful. If someone were wearing a military uniform in order to pass themselves off as an actual soldier and benefit from it, I'd have problems with that too. But just wearing the uniform isn't necessarily a bad thing, I don't think.\nThat's probably how I feel about cultural appropriation in general. If you're taking things from another culture to make fun of it, or claim it as your own, then no, not good. But if you wear the clothes, or eat the food, or listen to music etc from another culture because you genuinely appreciate it, I don't see the problem. It's being respectful, it's sharing culture, maybe even showing people who haven't had chance to experience that culture some of the good things about it, and I can only see that as a good thing.\nI'm very uncomfortable with the idea that any sharing of culture between races is a bad thing, which seems to be how some people define cultural appropriation, as it seems to be reinforcing the idea that cultures shouldn't mix, and playing in to the hands of racists.", ">\n\nA war bonnet is less wearing a uniform, and more like wearing medals on that uniform. You have to earn the right to wear a war bonnet.\nI also think the issue of the authenticity of what you consume is important. If you are listening to music from an artist of a culture, or eating food or wearing clothes sourced from members of that culture (and who benefit from that consumption) that's very different from buying something stripped of context and mass-produced by someone who will not be investing any of their profit back into the group to whom it originally belonged.\nI went to a Desi wedding recently. The groom, a friend of mine, said everyone was invited to wear Indian clothing to some of the events, so I picked a kurta. I bought it from an Indian company and picked an appropriate style and color for my role in the wedding and what kind of event it was. In short, I made every attempt to engage with the culture on its own terms and avoid doing anything that would be a dick move. And a lot of this was possible because there are spheres in which Desi culture is dominant, so when I existed within them I was necessarily operating within acceptable boundaries. If I had done something rude or unacceptable, I would have been moved back into acceptability (very nicely, everyone was great, but the idea stands). This is not the context in which American Indian culture specifically is usually consumed. Much more common is a single item or set of them, used as accessories while operating within another culture that has historically shown significant scorn for the peoples from whom it is taking these objects.\nLike I said on another comment, it's an issue of not being an asshole. Are you treating the object (and what it symbolizes) with the respect it deserves? My kurta was just a piece of clothing, so the respect was in what I did with it. However, authentic war bonnets are handmade for the people who earned them. If you buy one just to wear, you've already been disrespectful to what it means to the people to whom it has actual significance. If someone at the wedding had told me I was doing something out of line, I would have stopped doing it. If I hadn't, I would have been an asshole. If native people are saying \"please don't make costumes out of war bonnets\" I feel like you're an asshole if you keep doing it.", ">\n\nIn the case of Gwen Stefani, she's a person who for all intents and purposes is white, and she's using Japanese culture as an aesthetic - that's not bad. She was also using stereotypes, misusing cultural terms and symbols, and had a group of Japanese girls follow her around almost as props -that's the bad part.\nIts not wrong to claim a culture you were raised in even if you aren't the race of the people around you. Many adoptees do. But Gwen isn't Japanese. She wasnt raised there either. She isn't joining in on a culture, like some people do when they are \"cultural appreciators\", she's simply taking small pieces, specifically pieces of the Harajuku fashion scene, and turning it into a brand, especially when Japanese Americans are often used as a \"model minority\". It's not an equal exchange between Gwen and Asian Americans because obviously she can just do whatever she wants whereas they can't ask her to stop.", ">\n\nI really don’t know about this case but as you framed it I still don’t see what is wrong with her actions. It sounds ‘marketing like’. There is no reason for there to be equal exchange between a person and a people, as long as someone isn’t harming others in some way playing the advantage is fine.", ">\n\nUsing stereotypes as a brand is harmful.", ">\n\nIs she using negative stereotypes? A stereotype is fine as long as it isn’t negative in nature. Culture is fundamentally a collection of stereotypes in a sense.", ">\n\nI don’t see how that article proves my stance is untrue. Also a side note don’t generally trust articles framed from a sensationalistic perspective, especially if it is also framed like a story. If this article does indeed prove my stance untrue or you yourself can, can you make it clear in a conceptual / abstract fashion while avoiding sensationalism? That would be helpful.", ">\n\nThe problem I see with your statement is because you start by saying X RACE but switch to saying culture. Those are not the same thing. \nCase in point, I lived in Barbados for a time. 95% of the population is Black, but about 3% is White and approx. 2% is South or East Asian. \nThe White Bajans were born, raised and live in Barbados. They speak with the local accent and are raised in the same cultural context of their Black peers (listen to the same music, celebrate the same festivities, enjoy the same food, etc.), so it would be fair to call themselves Islanders/Bajans, and to benefit from their culture. \nWhite Bajans however do not have experience being Black. They absolutely should not use their cultural background as justification to rip off Black experiences for profit or otherwise. \nA perhaps more well-known example would be celebrity Michael B Jordan ripping off the name \"J'Ouvert\" for his rum company. Despite being Black, Jordan is not from the Caribbean and aligning your product with a traditional Caribbean festival to drive consumers to derive profit is not ethical.", ">\n\nYeah I think that's the important distinction. They can absolutely use the culture they were brought up in, but saying because you were brought up in that culture you also have the racial experience doesn't follow.", ">\n\nBut all the “racial experience” stuff is Americans projecting their racist, invented concepts of race onto people in other countries. America isn’t the only country in the world, and the experience of a white American isn’t analogous to every person in the world an American would describe as white.", ">\n\nUh what? Yeah of course it isn't analogous, that's the entire point. What are you talking about?", ">\n\nThat would be a great point if it didn't totally misunderstand what cultural appropriation is. The problem isn't \"ownership\" or who did it first, it's that one culture persecuted another for this, but is now enjoying it consequence-free while the original injustice remains unaddressed.", ">\n\nHilarious this is the top comment when it doesn't even get the central concept right.", ">\n\nEasily digestible, non-threatening false info is often more popular than challenging truth.", ">\n\nThanks for the positive reply! \nI think this may be too extreme of an example that I won`t get anyone actually trying to change my mind, may help to expand the viewpoint to transracialism in general.", ">\n\nPart of the issue is your are conflating (not to be rude but) stupid people on the internet talking about something, and an actual esoteric academic subject.\nIf you wanted to learn, say, about quantum physics would you go down to your local bar and ask the patrons? You wouldn't. But the information you're using is so generic and nonspecific that its the equivalent. You're looking for a basic common denominator because you're arguing against an equivalent.\nIf you want to learn about an esoteric subject you read published peer reviewed reports on that subject that explores the nuance, issues, and information associated with the topic.\nThat's really your problem. And maybe you're trying to expressly dissuade tiktokers and twitter users from using it - I don't disagree there. Its the same thing that is happening with Critical Thinking - people uneducated on the topic are loud and opinionated and make shit up to see knowledgeable. But what you aren't doing is learning about the actual academic topic that coined cultural appropriation - what it really is. You're working, instead, in a framework of second hand information passed along by people unassociated with the topic. Given the comment section, they're also ill-informed about the definition, examples, and history. Those people are playing telephone and have non-academic motives.\nIn the case that you listed no academic would consider that cultural appropriation by the academic definition;\n\nthe unacknowledged or inappropriate adoption of the customs, practices, ideas, etc. of one people or society by members of another and typically more dominant people or society.\n\nThe definition immediately defines the word as having to be unacknowledged and/or inappropriate. Literally being adopted isn't inappropriate.", ">\n\nFrom my experience with (even double blind) peer review, I don't understand why the practice has garnered such an adoring reputation, as it provides no assurance of Truth. \nThat said, I agree that it's worth learning what experts have to say. Just don't take it as gospel.", ">\n\nIt’s not about truth - it’s about people actually well educated on tangential but associated topics being able to contribute and discuss a topic in great detail using their education and experience with the topic. Pretty much everything you won’t find in non-academic realms. \nA benefit would be - and not to be rude, but an opportunity for example - not having to explain that it’s not about “truth” as a side topic to general academia.", ">\n\nYou'll have to be clearer. I don't understand what you're saying.\nI don't see how it's an opportunity to not be burdened with foundational methodological questions. I wish discussions could be more efficient in that way. I don't think it's possible unless you have people who have already accepted certain things. That's difficult is a forum like this.\nAs I understand it, peer review mostly exploded after WW2. While the volume of papers rapidly accelerated, the quality per paper did not, IMO.", ">\n\nTL;DR: There is no reason to believe Stefani is concurrent with the hypothetical you’ve provided in your title.\nIf people are accepted by a group as part of that group, it doesn’t really matter what out-groups have to say about it; moreover, it shouldn’t matter. The way you’ve set this up is a truism: out-groups don’t generally define in-groups if they aren’t part of that in-group; that’s not how in/out-groups work. In this example, if Gwen is accepted as a Japanese person, she’s either “accepted by Japanese people as a Japanese person,” or “she’s Japanese”. The distinction isn’t really worth fighting over by out-groups because they don’t define the terms.\nWith all that said, I think you should consider specific examples versus hypotheticals here, because hypotheticals aren’t important, but cultural examples definitely are. For example, you’ve described this situation as your example, but it’s not an example of your hypothetical: she’s not accepted by Japanese people as Japanese, and if she were, I don’t think this would be news; moreover, Stefani’s publicist said in a statement about Stefani that the claim was not made in earnest (i.e., “she didn’t mean literally Japanese”). Further still, Stefani is a ‘serial appropriator’, and that’s a known value. There’s no reason to think this situation is different, and her publicist noted that she didn’t claim what people are saying she claimed—specifically, she said the words “I’m Japanese”, but didn’t make the claim that she was, in fact, Japanese (again, despite literally saying it).", ">\n\n\nshe’s not accepted by Japanese people as Japanese\n\nHow could she be? They generally still have a blood-and-soil concept of who can be Japanese.", ">\n\nI’m not saying she is. In fact, that’s exactly what I am saying: this is a super bad example of what OP is trying to say.", ">\n\nThis is a pretty interesting topic.\nI am of Asian background but let's say I paid a Ukrainian grandmother to teach me how to make authentic Ukrainian perogies and I could ultimately master/replicate the recipe.\nA) Is it ethical that I sell these perogies and market it as authentic to people in my motherland, and\nB) Is it ethical if I sell then within Ukraine?\nTo me, under question A) I think it's fair, because you're providing a service that people would otherwise not be able to realistically receive so it promotes globalization. I would also say it's not cultural appropriation, if the recipe is an authentic and you're not making any false or grossly exaggerated representations.\nQuestion B) on the other hand, is a bit harder to answer and would depend on quite a few specifics. However, in general, to me this teeters more towards the unethical side, because you're not providing a novel service, and thus, you're using this recipe with the greater intention of making money.\nI'm not really sure what your position is, but would be interested to see how you interpret the above.", ">\n\nLet’s say you’re a native Ukrainian who “uses a pierogi recipe with the greater intention of making money”. Do you think that’s unethical too?\nIf no: then what’s wrong with a foreigner/non-Ukrainian doing it?\nIf yes: then your answers to both questions has nothing to do with cultural appropriation!", ">\n\n\nLet’s say you’re a native Ukrainian “uses a pierogi recipe with the greater intention of making money”. Do you think that’s unethical too?\nIf no: then what’s wrong with a foreigner/non-Ukrainian doing it?\n\nThe first scenario wouldn't be cultural appropriation because they are of that culture. The second scenario would fit into the category of cultural appropriation (barring some exceptions, such as if they had grown up within that culture).", ">\n\nTrue. But we already established with your first example that cultural appropriation is not always bad.", ">\n\nI don't know if you read the interview with Gwen Stefani, but really the problem is her commodification of Japanese culture for her benefit while she herself was not raised in Japan (from everything I've seen) and was not Japanese. Even then, there's another aspect, regardless of being raised in Japan if you are ethically white you simply can't face the exact same experiences. If that white person raised in Japan migrates to America they will not face the same sort of discrimination an ethnically Japanese person would face. \nI am half native and it shows, I was raised in America in a very white dominant environment, however I am incapable of claiming to truly be white regardless of that fact. Regardless of everything else, when someone sees me I will not be a white person. I may like the same things, use the same idioms, have the same accent, etc, but I will forever be seen and treated as something else. That is the reality of racism that many ethnically white people don't recognize because, like Gwen Stefani, they never had to truly face the repercussions for being a minority in that facet.", ">\n\nFrom your title, you give a lot of prerequisites. They must be:\n\nX race\nraised in Y country\nBy Y country's people\nWith Y countries culture\nIdentify with Y country's identity\nAccepted by Y country's people\n\nAnd then they can do what they want with that culture.\nWhich of these, if not met, are dealbreakers?\nWhat if they meet all of the above but are not \"raised by Y country's people\", for example. Are they still allowed to take elements from that culture?", ">\n\nThanks for the thought-provoking follow-up, I went with the extreme example, because that is what the source was setting as criteria. \nI`m sure I would be even much more liberal with the definition, but have not worked out my own viewpoint on where the line would be that you can call yourself a \"Culture\" \nIf someone`s lived experiences make them feel that they are that culture and they have any of the above (Besides only \"Identify with Y country's identity\" just), I guess I would find it acceptable to use that culture. \n------\n-Obviously there are degrees: if you lived in an embassy compound for a year, never left the compound, calling yourself that Y country can seem to be stretching it.", ">\n\nRace ≠ Nationality\nIf I, an African moved to Sweden and had a child who grew up in and spoke fluent Swedish language, was culturally Swedish, it still wouldn't make them Swede. Not unless their father was Swedish...\nThey'd be Swedish the nationality, but not an Ethnic Swede by race. .", ">\n\nIs Swedish an ethnicity?", ">\n\nThere are always going to be degrees of gradation to this, rather than some strict sharp line of delineation. For some people, to some observers, in some situations there will be labels that apply or don't and it comes down to how far outside of the sort of \"central cluster\" of that population a person is.\nThough I'd also say that looking like a member of a particular culture's vastly dominant race is itself a part of being in that culture, particularly with aspects of how that culture deals with self-image and interacts with outsiders. So there's going to be at least some part of what's generally part of Japanese culture which a white person will always be on the outside of, no matter what they do or what their background is, at least with respect to how things currently work. Whether this becomes relevant to a question (either internally or externally) of identity is going to come down to a lot of details of the specific situation.", ">\n\nIf you're born and raised in Japan, you're Japanese, regardless of your skin color, race, etc...\nAlso, culture is nurture, not nature. If you're raised in Japan, you're going to act culturally Japanese.", ">\n\nThanks for example!\nHonestly an even better example may be (Who does not use her otherness):\nKiko Mizuhara\nShe fits the criteria above:\nBorn In Dallas Texas, to a Korean Mother and Texan Father.\nRaised in Japan / Japanese schools. Only spoke Japanese growing up.\nCertainly on a list of largest fashion influencers in Japan now.\nCan she not call herself Japanese?", ">\n\nWentz, Becky, Thane Camus (whose nationality is American but was raised in Japan) etc. are all Japanese as far as I'm concerned, but it's also insincere to say they haven't leveraged their otherness to stand out and get ahead. \nThis is not meant to be judgemental, just a simple statement of fact.", ">\n\nRight or wrong, how does this affect the CMV either way? It doesn't seem to challenge or support their viewpoint, it's tangential.", ">\n\nIt doesn't; it's just supposed to make you feel bad and shut up.", ">\n\nWell first, I don’t believe Stefani grew up in Japan. If that was true then yeah she would have a better claim to being culturally Japanese. \nSecondly, Japanese culture is not like America were you can immigrate and become fully integrated. There are Koreans living in Japan whose great great grandparents were brought over as laborers before WW 2 and who are still not seen as true Nihonjin. It’s a specific mix of racial, ethnic, and cultural traits that make you Japanese. You can’t just adopt the identity, even if you grew up in Japan. \nTLDR you can’t claim a cultural identity unless that culture says you can be part of it. And with Japanese culture in particular, it’s incredibly hard if not impossible to join the club after birth.\nEdit: my statements are based on my experiences living 3 years in Japan and looking into Japanese citizenship through marriage.", ">\n\n\nWell first, I don’t believe Stefani grew up in Japan. If that was true then yeah she would have a better claim to being culturally Japanese.\n\nShe claimed that her father went on business trips to Japan, and that she was exposed to some Japanese culture while growing up in California.", ">\n\nIs this about the cat song or have she gone of the rails?", ">\n\nShe recently did an interview where she claimed she was Japanese because her dad went there a lot and she likes Japanese culture", ">\n\nI mean that describes tens of thousands of people. Well millions if you include every anime or Kurosawa fan. IMHO you need to at least have a long-term resident's visa and be fluent in Japanese to call yourself culturally Japanese.", ">\n\nThe biggest issue here is working with an incredibly hypothetical situation that may or may not have ever happened, and then asking to have a fully formed black or white view of it. Especially while using vague language to describe the scenario.\nIf a Japanese baby is adopted out to a German couple and spends their entire life in Germany, speaking German, etc, does your view also mean they must forgo any cultural ties to their birthplace and birth parents?", ">\n\nNope, My view is all for first / second / third-culture kids. \nThe German situation, I would be fine with them having cultural ties to birthplace / birth parents. In no way would expect it of them though. \nI`m personally a third culture kid, and while I`m nowhere close to the hypothetical, I have met and been friends with people that fit in the above hypothetical example (Again mostly, Korean / Chinese)", ">\n\nThat seems like a different view, since your post is pretty specifically about adoption", ">\n\nWhat if we take a non-white people example and try to run through this logic?\nImagine a Nigerian couple moves to Norway. They learn English, they adopt the Norwegian culture, they learn the history and adopt the expected social practices. This couple has a child. This child is raised Norwegian, speaks English etc.\nIn this hypothetical example, is the child Norwegian? \nThe problem with philosophy is that it tends to break down when we bring it into the real world. People can exist in gray space between labels. The child can be seen as both Norwegian and not and most people just judge what they think is most important in the category. Or maybe it depends on what is meant in context when discussion of Norwegian identity comes up. Is simply being born there enough or is there something more ephemeral to the identity?", ">\n\nYes, that child is Norwegian with Nigerian heritage. Norwegian is the language they'd be speaking though.", ">\n\nThat is your opinion. That wouldn't be everyone's opinion. That is my point.\nAlso, yeah, dumb mistake on my part. Was half-awake.", ">\n\nImo anyone who thinks otherwise has a whiff of racism.", ">\n\nLuckily, you aren't the arbiter of everyone's identities.", ">\n\nThe combination of culture, heritage and norms you're talking about is generally understood as \"ethnicity\"... \"race\", insofar as it still has any meaning, is basically a proxy for \"looks a certain way / has a certain set of genetics\".\nSo here's the thing: whether or not you belong to an ethnicity boils down to:\n\nWhether you identify with that ethnicity\nWhether enough folks of that ethnicity accept your identification with it\n\nThat's as simple as it is ... it's not a taxonomic structure, it's a social structure, and that means that it's defined socially.\nJapan is an extremely \"racially\" homogenous place (\\~98%), which means that being \"ethnically\" Japanese is highly associated with looking similar to most Japanese people. That means that someone who is adopted and raised by Japanese people, grew up in Japan, speaks Japanese, but doesn't look Japanese might not be accepted by most Japanese people as being ethnically Japanese.\nTo be clear: I don't think a bunch of (presumably non-Japanese) people on a progressive gaming website get to say one way or the other whether a \"white\" person can say they're Japanese ... Japanese people get to say that, because they define how their ethnicity works.\nHere's an alternate example: folks of my own ethnic group (I'm Jewish) generally accepts someone as Jewish if:\n\nTheir mother was Jewish\nThey were raised as a Jew\nThey convert to Judaism (the religion associated with ethnic Jews. Not every Jew practices Judaism, but everyone who practices Judaism is a Jew).\n\nEvery ethnic group has slightly different rules and norms, and that's a-ok.", ">\n\n\nHere's an alternate example: folks of my own ethnic group (I'm Jewish) generally accepts someone as Jewish if:\n\nTheir mother was Jewish\nThey were raised as a Jew\nThey convert to Judaism (the religion associated with ethnic Jews. Not every Jew practices Judaism, but everyone who practices Judaism is a Jew).\n\n\nNot that it's super relevant to your point, but it is not true that converts are accepted as Jewish by all Jews, nor is it true that someone raised as a Jew with no other inherited or ritualized connection to Judaism is Jewish.", ">\n\n\nNot that it's super relevant to your point, but it is not true that converts are accepted as Jewish by all Jews\n\nIt's certainly true of most Jews -- I never said everyone who belongs to an ethnicity has to expect you, just most. Jews, too, can be jerks.\n\nnor is it true that someone raised as a Jew with no other inherited or ritualized connection to Judaism is Jewish.\n\nI'm not sure how you can be raised as a Jew without any \"ritualized connection to Judaism\".", ">\n\n\nIt's certainly true of most Jews\n\nSure, but its not as uncontroversial or factual as you laid it out. \n\nI'm not sure how you can be raised as a Jew without any \"ritualized connection to Judaism\".\n\nI can't think of a scenario where it really makes sense for this to happen, but if neither of your parents are Jewish and you didn't convert, then by the rules of Judaism, you are not Jewish regardless of how you were raised or what you practice.", ">\n\n\nSure, but its not as uncontroversial or factual as you laid it out. \n\nIt's uncontroversial to every group of secular, reform and conservative Jews I've met or interacted with -- I am aware that Haredim may view it differently, but am less familiar with their beliefs.\n\nI can't think of a scenario where it really makes sense for this to happen, but if neither of your parents are Jewish and you didn't convert, then by the rules of Judaism, you are not Jewish regardless of how you were raised or what you practice.\n\nSure, if you're not born a Jew, then you can't practice Judaism without converting to Judaism, but I can't imagine you'd be adopted by parents who want to raise you as a Jew but don't envision that including practicing Judaism", ">\n\n\nIt's uncontroversial to every group of secular, reform and conservative Jews I've met or interacted with -- I am aware that Haredim may view it differently, but am less familiar with their beliefs.\n\nPrejudice isn't exclusively the purview of more orthodox Jews. My father in law is a convert and I've seen plenty of prejudice among conservative and reform Jews, thinking of converts as strange, or as tryhards, or as somehow \"less\" Jewish. \n\nSure, if you're not born a Jew, then you can't practice Judaism without converting to Judaism, but I can't imagine you'd be adopted by parents who want to raise you as a Jew but don't envision that including practicing Judaism\n\nPracticing Judaism doesn't make you Jewish. You're born Jewish, or you convert.", ">\n\n\nPrejudice isn't exclusively the purview of more orthodox Jews. My father in law is a convert and I've seen plenty of prejudice among conservative and reform Jews, thinking of converts as strange, or as tryhards, or as somehow \"less\" Jewish.\n\nThat's fair enough, but I don't think it takes away from my point to OP. The common opinion in the US is that you're \"American\" by virtue of citizenship ... the prejudiced minority opinion that you're \"less\" American if you don't \"look\" American doesn't really change that fact.\n\nPracticing Judaism doesn't make you Jewish. You're born Jewish, or you convert.\n\nWe're going in circles here, mate. If you're not born Jewish, how can you practice Judaism without converting to Judaism? You can't practice Judaism without being a Jew.", ">\n\n\nThat's fair enough, but I don't think it takes away from my point to OP\n\nYeah, that's literally the first thing I said.\n\nYou can't practice Judaism without being a Jew.\n\nOf course you can, because practicing Judaism and being Jewish are not the same thing. You can do all the things Jews do without being Jewish.\nPracticing = behaviors\nBeing = a status", ">\n\n\nOf course you can, because practicing Judaism and being Jewish are not the same thing. You can do all the things Jews do without being Jewish.\n\nDon't think that makes sense from a theological perspective. Judaism is a covenant between God and the Jews; you can follow many of the rules voluntarily if you like, but to be bound by and participate in the covenant requires being a Jew.\nMany of the practices also require being a Jew. You can't participate in a minyan if you aren't a Jew; there are many mitzvot you can't perform without a minyan. E.g., you can't recite the devarim shebikdushah.\nYour argument is kinda like saying, \"You can practice law without being a lawyer,\" and it's incorrect for the same reason.", ">\n\n\nyou can follow many of the rules voluntarily if you like\n\nThat's practicing Judaism. \n\nbut to be bound by and participate in the covenant requires being a Jew.\n\nAnd that's being Jewish. You totally get the difference. \n\nYou can't participate in a minyan if you aren't a Jew; there are many mitzvot you can't perform without a minyan.\n\nRight. You need to have a minyan, you don't need to be part of one. Women haven't always been allowed to be in a minyan, either, but they were still Jewish. \n\nYour argument is kinda like saying, \"You can practice law without being a lawyer,\" and it's incorrect for the same reason.\n\nYou actually can practice law without being a lawyer. That's what you're doing when you represent yourself in court.", ">\n\nWhile there will be a certain amount of racists saying stupid shit (often even more obnoxiously online) the premiss that everyone accept people of another ethnicity is pretty shake in the best of times, even for minorities or native people that might have lived as long, or longer than the majority ethnicity.\nA country like Japan. Known for pretty much being the example of a monoethnic culture, and being very xenophobic/discriminating against all foreigners... Well, I don't have a surprised face tbh.", ">\n\n\"If you are of white race, you should not be able to claim that you are of Japanese Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame.\"\nso whether or not you can do something depends on.... your race? wait a minute doesnt that sound like racism. also let me do this.\n\"If you are of black race, you should not be able to claim that you are of french Culture or use that culture to profit and for fame.\"\nthere if you made that adjustment your comment would be removed by the moderators because racism is only ok against white people\ni would give it a 50% chance that you dont even agree with the second statement.", ">\n\nI mean she didn’t claim she is “of Japanese culture” she literally said “I’m Japanese!” because her dad used to make business trips to Japan and she was exposed to some Japanese culture growing up in Cali. That’s a pretty absurd claim.", ">\n\nFor me, the shoe is on the other proverbial foot. I am Gitxsan (Native American) and was taken from my mother at the age of 18 months as part of the Sixties Scoop. Just before turning 3, I was adopted by a German immigrant family. My family brought me to Germany several times, I was fluent in German by age 5, and the city where my adopted mother hails from has accepted me as one of the family. By this logic, am I allowed to claim German heritage?", ">\n\nYou're allowed to do that regardless of race.", ">\n\nI think it blows your mind because you expected some kind of internally consistent logic. It's just emotional shallow reactions.\nSomething about white people making money off of non white people? On most mainstream websites that premise is enough for the vast majority of people to agree? Why? Because it sounds like a thing the good guys on our side would say.", ">\n\nI think intent goes a long way in this discussion. I live in Oklahoma. Native American culture is everywhere. You would be hard pressed to find a public place or private business that does not have its influence clearly on display. Many white people wear clothing and jewelry of Native influence. This is not looked at as appropriation. Our former governor, Mary Fallon, had a daughter. She has a band. It is an outright assault on the ears. But that aside, at one venue she decided to don a plastic war bonnet and dance around the stage, provoking the Natives protesting her act. Every Oklahoman with any brains can tell the difference between appropriating a culture and celebrating one. I think most of the country can too. It’s as easy as knowing right from wrong. Use good judgment.", ">\n\nEveryone should have the right to identify with and claim a culture that they feel a connection to, regardless of their race or ethnicity.", ">\n\nCulture is shaped by a variety of factors and should not be limited by one's race or ethnicity.", ">\n\nIt is important to consider the historical and societal context in which someone is claiming a certain culture, as cultural appropriation can be hurtful and disrespectful to marginalized cultures.", ">\n\nIt is important to have an open and respectful dialogue to navigate these complex issues and consider the perspectives of all involved parties.", ">\n\nWere you raised in Japan by missionary parents? Is your audience Japanese, or are you presenting to a mostly none Japanese culture?\nSo much is Just context.\nWhat was your position and where did your privilege come from inside of that culture?\nBlacks and whites were living in the same place but minsrel shows we're still pretty problematic.\nI could see a lot of times when it would be okay, but could you see any situation when it would not be?", ">\n\nRacial gatekeeping is for losers that never go outside and meet people", ">\n\nThat's the naturalization part of immigration.", ">\n\na side note to this post, without getting my own opinion involve its very common for japanese to belive all non japanese looking people to be foreing even when raised in the country so her case might be mixed with japanese prejudicy", ">\n\nFrom a black persons' context, there is a very vivid perspective about this topic in the tv series AtlantaFX S4E10 where Earn, Alfred and Van go to a black owned Japanese restaurant.", ">\n\nIt’s wise to be careful about generalities when abstracting groups of groups of groups like this. When you pull out to a thousand feet lens, humans are generally similar across these somewhat arbitrary divisions. But the close up differences are the whole point and are worth taking into consideration. Especially for when the conversation is so specific that named individuals are involved. \nI do not have anything to say about this one particularly, but arbitrarily ignoring differences does not make arbitrary differences go away. Two wrongs and a right and all that.", ">\n\nIf a baby is born and bred in America, no matter where their for fathers are from they are Americans. Whether they are Asian, African etc. my father was born in America of parents who immigrated from Denmark. He was American.\nHe could have called himself Danish American but American he remained, having served his country for 20 years in the Air force. Is there a law that states he could not have profited from his Danish decent. I don’t think so.", ">\n\nMarcus Samuelson claims his Ethiopian and Swedish heritage. He was born in Ethiopia and was adopted by Swedes and grew up there. He is now an American. How would he not claim his ethnicity or not claim where he grew up.", ">\n\nIn my opinion, if someone is adopted at a young age into a culture different from their parents, they can claim to be from that culture. Example: If a black baby from Kenya is adopted and raised into an Arabic household in Arabia, where he is raised with Arabic culture and is taught their customs and language, then they can claim to be of Arabic culture. What, they're supposed to identify with a Kenyan culture they have no personal ties to? They cannot, however, claim to be ethnically Arab, as that is different.", ">\n\nDepends on which culture. An American going to Africa, learning a trade/custom/whatever and then profiting is unethical given the history of the Western world's exploitation of the entire continent and how that's left most states in Africa. \nI think people understand the extreme example, but they take the polarized stance to every culture. Japan is an interesting one since its always been isolationist, and has never been conquered by a Western power. But there has been a history of anti-Asian, and specifically anti-Japanese sentiment.\nWith respect to appropriation in Japan, as an American it's likely hard to relate since we don't have a long history of customs and culture. But there is the fetishizing of Japanese culture. The closest thing we probably have is religion. The reverse example would be a non-Christian country dressing up as knock off Jesus. I'm sure people would be mad at that in some way.", ">\n\n\nDepends on which culture. An American going to Africa, learning a trade/custom/whatever and then profiting is unethical given the history of the Western world's exploitation of the entire continent and how that's left most states in Africa.\n\nWhy exactly is this unethical? Like, I understand that the history of the Western world's exploitation of the African continent is unethical... but why does that translate into it being wrong for, say, a white American chef to incorporate Ethiopian-inspired dishes into their cuisine, or for a white musician to play a traditional Nigerian instrument on an album? What harm is being done by either of these things?", ">\n\n\nbut why does that translate into it being wrong for, say, a white American chef to incorporate Ethiopian-inspired dishes into their cuisine,\n\nI spoke in absolutes but my intention wasn't to communicate it was an absolute. I think there's no single rule. I was more using Africa as the region as the extreme case with a history of exploitation, vs a country like Japan. \nFor example, a chef celebrating some Ethiopian dishes is much different than opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants back in the states. Obviously a lot of gray area in between.\nGenerally I view some instances as cultural tourism fueled by white guilt. An extreme case is white missionaries taking trips to Africa to \"work\" for 3 weeks, take pictures with black people, and then go home. Maybe they wear a traditional piece of clothing and discuss their time there.", ">\n\n\nFor example, a chef celebrating some Ethiopian dishes is much different than opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants back in the states. Obviously a lot of gray area in between.\n\nYou still seem to take it as axiomatic that there is some level of \"appropriation\" that is unethical. What would be wrong with me opening a chain of Ethiopian restaurants? Whether or not the food is \"authentically Ethiopian\", what exactly is the harm here? Is Taco Bell appropriation? What if I just really like Ethiopian food and want to share my take on it? If customers like the food and are willing to buy it... what's the problem? Is it wrong to claim it's Ethiopian when it's just an Americanized dish inspired by Ethiopian cuisine? \nI'm not trying to give you a hard time here, I just honestly can't see why this would be \"unethical\" in any way. What harm is caused by taking inspiration from a foreign culture? Even if I make boatloads of profits, I haven't \"stolen\" anything away from the Ethiopian people, I'm just using some of their favored ingredients and making dishes similar to what they eat.", ">\n\nIf you are borne to two White parents and have lived in Japan since you were 3 months old; and all your playmates (and their parents) and peers in schools, sleepovers, birthday parties, at work and in churches are Japanese... then, regardless your genetic / ethnic heritage, you're Japanese.\nI think Tom Cruise's \"The Last Samurai\" kind of captured the essence of what I'm trying to say, nicely.", ">\n\nAmusingly I know someone who is half Japanese by birth, speaks Japanese, and worked there for a few years but Japanese people in Japan often called him a racial slur and told him he wasn't Japanese. Some cultures are more inclusive and open to new members than others.", ">\n\nI don't think folks like Gwen Stefani should give a rat's ass what others think.\nI don't think you should get remotely exercised about this topic.\nJust obsessing over this is silly.\nFrank Sinatra sang \"Ol' Man River\" with similar pronunciations as Paul Robeson's\nI'm a white dude with frizzy hair.... if I decide to wear dreadlocks, who cares about what 'progressive gaming websites' decide?!. That is your problem. You are trying to convince lib...eh 'progressives' that your views make sense.\nI think your views are already too politically correct. \nGwen Stefani can sell sushi if she wants. So can Jewish guys from Queens. \nChange your view to 'screw what the progressives think and adopt any cultural trope you wish'", ">\n\nMany cultures like to share, Japan being one of them. Only Americans get hung up on \"cultural appropriation.\"\nThe world has become this amazing place because people have always taken from other cultures to share with others." ]

[]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of...." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on...." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over)." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes.", ">\n\nOh good lord. The lawyers found documents and called the National Archives the same day. The next day they had the documents.\nWhat’s the special counsel going to do here?" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes.", ">\n\nOh good lord. The lawyers found documents and called the National Archives the same day. The next day they had the documents.\nWhat’s the special counsel going to do here?", ">\n\nHead off a GOP circus and put this to bed with facts before it becomes another Benghazi" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes.", ">\n\nOh good lord. The lawyers found documents and called the National Archives the same day. The next day they had the documents.\nWhat’s the special counsel going to do here?", ">\n\nHead off a GOP circus and put this to bed with facts before it becomes another Benghazi", ">\n\nI am so tired of everything ‘Washington’. Everyone disappoints, sooner or later." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes.", ">\n\nOh good lord. The lawyers found documents and called the National Archives the same day. The next day they had the documents.\nWhat’s the special counsel going to do here?", ">\n\nHead off a GOP circus and put this to bed with facts before it becomes another Benghazi", ">\n\nI am so tired of everything ‘Washington’. Everyone disappoints, sooner or later.", ">\n\n\"Everybody hurts...sometimes\"" ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes.", ">\n\nOh good lord. The lawyers found documents and called the National Archives the same day. The next day they had the documents.\nWhat’s the special counsel going to do here?", ">\n\nHead off a GOP circus and put this to bed with facts before it becomes another Benghazi", ">\n\nI am so tired of everything ‘Washington’. Everyone disappoints, sooner or later.", ">\n\n\"Everybody hurts...sometimes\"", ">\n\nProps to Biden here for admitting it and not trying to cover it up." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes.", ">\n\nOh good lord. The lawyers found documents and called the National Archives the same day. The next day they had the documents.\nWhat’s the special counsel going to do here?", ">\n\nHead off a GOP circus and put this to bed with facts before it becomes another Benghazi", ">\n\nI am so tired of everything ‘Washington’. Everyone disappoints, sooner or later.", ">\n\n\"Everybody hurts...sometimes\"", ">\n\nProps to Biden here for admitting it and not trying to cover it up.", ">\n\nGarland wasted no time with this 😂 This is going to move faster than the Trump investigation, place your bets." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes.", ">\n\nOh good lord. The lawyers found documents and called the National Archives the same day. The next day they had the documents.\nWhat’s the special counsel going to do here?", ">\n\nHead off a GOP circus and put this to bed with facts before it becomes another Benghazi", ">\n\nI am so tired of everything ‘Washington’. Everyone disappoints, sooner or later.", ">\n\n\"Everybody hurts...sometimes\"", ">\n\nProps to Biden here for admitting it and not trying to cover it up.", ">\n\nGarland wasted no time with this 😂 This is going to move faster than the Trump investigation, place your bets.", ">\n\nI am so glad Biden is cooperating and not threatening to fire AG while screaming “witch hunt” the entire time." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes.", ">\n\nOh good lord. The lawyers found documents and called the National Archives the same day. The next day they had the documents.\nWhat’s the special counsel going to do here?", ">\n\nHead off a GOP circus and put this to bed with facts before it becomes another Benghazi", ">\n\nI am so tired of everything ‘Washington’. Everyone disappoints, sooner or later.", ">\n\n\"Everybody hurts...sometimes\"", ">\n\nProps to Biden here for admitting it and not trying to cover it up.", ">\n\nGarland wasted no time with this 😂 This is going to move faster than the Trump investigation, place your bets.", ">\n\nI am so glad Biden is cooperating and not threatening to fire AG while screaming “witch hunt” the entire time.", ">\n\nNO WAY main stream media would allow this before the midterms." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes.", ">\n\nOh good lord. The lawyers found documents and called the National Archives the same day. The next day they had the documents.\nWhat’s the special counsel going to do here?", ">\n\nHead off a GOP circus and put this to bed with facts before it becomes another Benghazi", ">\n\nI am so tired of everything ‘Washington’. Everyone disappoints, sooner or later.", ">\n\n\"Everybody hurts...sometimes\"", ">\n\nProps to Biden here for admitting it and not trying to cover it up.", ">\n\nGarland wasted no time with this 😂 This is going to move faster than the Trump investigation, place your bets.", ">\n\nI am so glad Biden is cooperating and not threatening to fire AG while screaming “witch hunt” the entire time.", ">\n\nNO WAY main stream media would allow this before the midterms.", ">\n\nIf the \"mainstream media\" knew about this before the election why didnt Fox News, the most mainstream of media report on it?\nWe only found out about the Trump situation because he went on social media and started complaining about the FBI searching his resort. This was after many many months of the government trying to get the documents from him with nothing being reported in the news. If anything this shows info about Biden was leaked to the press way faster than the details about Trump were." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes.", ">\n\nOh good lord. The lawyers found documents and called the National Archives the same day. The next day they had the documents.\nWhat’s the special counsel going to do here?", ">\n\nHead off a GOP circus and put this to bed with facts before it becomes another Benghazi", ">\n\nI am so tired of everything ‘Washington’. Everyone disappoints, sooner or later.", ">\n\n\"Everybody hurts...sometimes\"", ">\n\nProps to Biden here for admitting it and not trying to cover it up.", ">\n\nGarland wasted no time with this 😂 This is going to move faster than the Trump investigation, place your bets.", ">\n\nI am so glad Biden is cooperating and not threatening to fire AG while screaming “witch hunt” the entire time.", ">\n\nNO WAY main stream media would allow this before the midterms.", ">\n\nIf the \"mainstream media\" knew about this before the election why didnt Fox News, the most mainstream of media report on it?\nWe only found out about the Trump situation because he went on social media and started complaining about the FBI searching his resort. This was after many many months of the government trying to get the documents from him with nothing being reported in the news. If anything this shows info about Biden was leaked to the press way faster than the details about Trump were.", ">\n\nFox is the only place that would have reported it...other outlets had sources that knew it, but kept it under wraps until after the election, just like the hunter biden laptop." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes.", ">\n\nOh good lord. The lawyers found documents and called the National Archives the same day. The next day they had the documents.\nWhat’s the special counsel going to do here?", ">\n\nHead off a GOP circus and put this to bed with facts before it becomes another Benghazi", ">\n\nI am so tired of everything ‘Washington’. Everyone disappoints, sooner or later.", ">\n\n\"Everybody hurts...sometimes\"", ">\n\nProps to Biden here for admitting it and not trying to cover it up.", ">\n\nGarland wasted no time with this 😂 This is going to move faster than the Trump investigation, place your bets.", ">\n\nI am so glad Biden is cooperating and not threatening to fire AG while screaming “witch hunt” the entire time.", ">\n\nNO WAY main stream media would allow this before the midterms.", ">\n\nIf the \"mainstream media\" knew about this before the election why didnt Fox News, the most mainstream of media report on it?\nWe only found out about the Trump situation because he went on social media and started complaining about the FBI searching his resort. This was after many many months of the government trying to get the documents from him with nothing being reported in the news. If anything this shows info about Biden was leaked to the press way faster than the details about Trump were.", ">\n\nFox is the only place that would have reported it...other outlets had sources that knew it, but kept it under wraps until after the election, just like the hunter biden laptop.", ">\n\nNone of any of this would have been an issue if Trump had just returned the documents he stole. We never would have heard about it. It happens all the time, the only time it became an issue is when the ex-President refused to return property that belongs to the American people.\nThat's the crime, not errantly putting a random document in the wrong banker's box." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes.", ">\n\nOh good lord. The lawyers found documents and called the National Archives the same day. The next day they had the documents.\nWhat’s the special counsel going to do here?", ">\n\nHead off a GOP circus and put this to bed with facts before it becomes another Benghazi", ">\n\nI am so tired of everything ‘Washington’. Everyone disappoints, sooner or later.", ">\n\n\"Everybody hurts...sometimes\"", ">\n\nProps to Biden here for admitting it and not trying to cover it up.", ">\n\nGarland wasted no time with this 😂 This is going to move faster than the Trump investigation, place your bets.", ">\n\nI am so glad Biden is cooperating and not threatening to fire AG while screaming “witch hunt” the entire time.", ">\n\nNO WAY main stream media would allow this before the midterms.", ">\n\nIf the \"mainstream media\" knew about this before the election why didnt Fox News, the most mainstream of media report on it?\nWe only found out about the Trump situation because he went on social media and started complaining about the FBI searching his resort. This was after many many months of the government trying to get the documents from him with nothing being reported in the news. If anything this shows info about Biden was leaked to the press way faster than the details about Trump were.", ">\n\nFox is the only place that would have reported it...other outlets had sources that knew it, but kept it under wraps until after the election, just like the hunter biden laptop.", ">\n\nNone of any of this would have been an issue if Trump had just returned the documents he stole. We never would have heard about it. It happens all the time, the only time it became an issue is when the ex-President refused to return property that belongs to the American people.\nThat's the crime, not errantly putting a random document in the wrong banker's box.", ">\n\nAgreed, but Biden also having documents shows there is an alarming lack of care and control around classified documents in Washington. How many other politicians have an accidental stash of classified documents forgotten in a closet somewhere?\nUnless evidence of intentional or negligent actions from Biden come to light, I don't see any reason for criminal charges. But I do hope this leads to reform and a crackdown on how classified information is handled." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes.", ">\n\nOh good lord. The lawyers found documents and called the National Archives the same day. The next day they had the documents.\nWhat’s the special counsel going to do here?", ">\n\nHead off a GOP circus and put this to bed with facts before it becomes another Benghazi", ">\n\nI am so tired of everything ‘Washington’. Everyone disappoints, sooner or later.", ">\n\n\"Everybody hurts...sometimes\"", ">\n\nProps to Biden here for admitting it and not trying to cover it up.", ">\n\nGarland wasted no time with this 😂 This is going to move faster than the Trump investigation, place your bets.", ">\n\nI am so glad Biden is cooperating and not threatening to fire AG while screaming “witch hunt” the entire time.", ">\n\nNO WAY main stream media would allow this before the midterms.", ">\n\nIf the \"mainstream media\" knew about this before the election why didnt Fox News, the most mainstream of media report on it?\nWe only found out about the Trump situation because he went on social media and started complaining about the FBI searching his resort. This was after many many months of the government trying to get the documents from him with nothing being reported in the news. If anything this shows info about Biden was leaked to the press way faster than the details about Trump were.", ">\n\nFox is the only place that would have reported it...other outlets had sources that knew it, but kept it under wraps until after the election, just like the hunter biden laptop.", ">\n\nNone of any of this would have been an issue if Trump had just returned the documents he stole. We never would have heard about it. It happens all the time, the only time it became an issue is when the ex-President refused to return property that belongs to the American people.\nThat's the crime, not errantly putting a random document in the wrong banker's box.", ">\n\nAgreed, but Biden also having documents shows there is an alarming lack of care and control around classified documents in Washington. How many other politicians have an accidental stash of classified documents forgotten in a closet somewhere?\nUnless evidence of intentional or negligent actions from Biden come to light, I don't see any reason for criminal charges. But I do hope this leads to reform and a crackdown on how classified information is handled.", ">\n\nWe have no idea what the documents are or what level of classification they are. It could have been his personal travel schedule." ]

[ "We are waiting for a different announcement.", ">\n\nAG sure didn’t waste anytime on this one.", ">\n\nProbably to put it to bed quickly. They probably assume that the right will blow this up to no end and try to create a circus to interrupt the Trump proceedings. So investigate, clear Biden, and get back on track.", ">\n\nThat makes perfect sense in a world where right wing media would actually care about the facts of the case. They won't though. They just want the talking point that Trump did nothing wrong because Biden. Now they have it.", ">\n\nThey were gonna do it anyway. Everything with the right is a \"damned if you do, damned if you don't\" situation.\nDon't investigate something because it's not a problem: \"REEEEeeee, unfair treatment! Hypocrisy! They are persecuting us!\"\nInvestigate something that may be an issue: \"REEEEeeee, they are the literal devil! Look how bad they are! Guilty guilty guilty!\"\nInvestigation finds problem: \"Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\". \nInvestigation finds nothing: \"Biased and fake. Obviously lies and interference. Impeach! LOCK HIM UP!\" \nYou can't win, so the best route is to not even bother trying. Don't let their views influence your decision because they will always disagree with them anyway.", ">\n\nJust because you can't win in the mind of crazy people doesn't mean you stop trying altogether. That's how you let crazy people win. \nInstead you always continue doing the right thing, continue to earn the trust of reasonable people, and let the crazies isolate themselves from society further", ">\n\nAnd how has that strategy been working out so far?? I don't know when you want to start the clock on how long the status quo has been to proceed in the manner you're describing but I don't think you can find a starting point that would be worse then than things are now. That fairly strongly suggests that the strategy is not working. Maybe it's time to change tactics.", ">\n\nHow has it been working out? Well the democrats have the white house and the senate while the republican led house is in shamboes and the red wave was a big joke. \nPretty good so far, but things take longer than a season of tv to play out.", ">\n\nDems have the Senate and Presidency because of bad Republican messaging. Not because Dems are making anyone happy.", ">\n\nYea and if the Dems stooped to the same dumb \"fight fire with fire\" thought then they wouldn't weaken the Rep position, they would grant them legitimacy - when it becomes a \"legit both sides\" thing then some reasonable people support Repubs because it becomes just one side of a corruption coin. \nIf the Dems stooped to the same level as Repubs then the Repub message would become more accepted and we wouod have a Repub Congress", ">\n\nI can’t stand Trump, but they both need to be investigated. This is how the system is supposed to work.", ">\n\nThat’s the part that people don’t seem to get. Politicians should be held accountable for their actions. It shouldn’t be about taking someone down for political gain. It’s about maintaining a working government that hopefully isn’t totally corrupt.", ">\n\nI believe those days are long gone. Having a well-loved, black President for 8 years, irreparably broke the Republican Party. The GOP didn’t nominate Trump because he was Presidential-material, they nominated him to agitate and fear-monger ignorant white racists and he did exactly that, it’s his entire base!", ">\n\nWhat does any of that have to do with investigating classified materials that aren’t where they belong?", ">\n\nFor the Republicans, it is all about righting the “wrong” aka the Obama years. They don’t give a damn about this country, they just want to punish the Dems for not only electing a black man for President, but doing it twice! 🤣", ">\n\nAs a moderate who doesn’t belong to either party…y’all are both sides of the same coin. It’s like this crazy fandom from both sides that are to blind their own faults. Democrats are just as sleazy and corrupt as Republicans. It’s gross. Hold your parties accountable. Nobody gets my vote unless they earn it…I’m not on a freaking team or part of some fan club.", ">\n\nSo you don’t vote, but you like to complain? I got it.", ">\n\nI vote. I also call out bullshit. One isn’t exclusive of the other. I’ve voted both R and D and will continue to do so…what I don’t do is fall into some tribalistic crap where I…ONLY vote blue or ONLY vote red because they’re “one of us”. Don’t do that. You’re vote is leverage. It’s how you pressure the parties to do the right thing. Conceding that leverage is bad logic. It’s weak oversight. Might as well start buying DNC/Repub hats, swag etc to wear when you root for your team like some crazy Bama fan. 😂", ">\n\nThis is a problem with the polarization of the parties. I CANNOT vote for a righty because even if they might have some better ideas on SOME fiscal policy, they are quite likely to vote with their party removing rights from others on social policies, which to me is a bigger problem. How do I gain leverage when one party says they don't want my vote?", ">\n\nThere are politicians that are in line with sane policies. The problem is they mostly get weeded out at a lower level and never rise because people don’t actually pay attention to them. They just vote R and D and argue over the terrible candidates that wheel and deal and corrupt their way to the top. You have to remember that in most cases Senators and even members of Congress don’t answer to you and I…they know you’ll just vote R or D. They answer to their own political machine…which creates corrupt pieces of shit who don’t give 2 fucks about you and I.\nLook at what Pelosi was worth in 2004 and what she’s worth today. How’d that happen?\nLook at Trump…I don’t even know where to start?\nGreg Abbot in TX? He’s fucking bananas.\nFixing our system by supporting good candidates starts with rewarding good candidates running for lower offices. Not just voting down a line at the ballot. Those same good candidates will need your support as they rise. Stop looking at the R and D next to their name and start looking at their policies and whether they follow through with campaign promises. Hold them accountable with your vote.", ">\n\nIs this the part where Biden fires Garland?\nWait. Wrong president.", ">\n\nI know it's sarcasm, but the appointment of a special counsel means that if AG Garland were replaced, the special counsel still continues the investigation.", ">\n\nYou just keep firing all of the AsG until you find one who thinks that the Special Counsel should be fired. Easy.", ">\n\nIf you hire and fire every attorney in America for the position, eventually there would be no one left to take the job.\n4D chess!", ">\n\nIt's funny that all the lawyers that work for Trump end up in legal trouble themselves.", ">\n\nMAGA =Making Attorneys Get Attorneys.", ">\n\nDemocrat here. Happy to see this. Investigate, prosecute if there’s wrong doing, or clear him. Show the way the system is meant to work, which also strengthens a case against Trump. \nSo far, no one knew these were missing, Biden’s team reached out when they were found, and investigations are happening without being blocked. Both sidesing stuff isn’t fair, but when similar actions happen, I want to see how different groups handle it. So far Biden has been forthcoming and open. I want leaders who set those types of standards. \nI also want him prosecuted if it’s warranted. But I don’t think it would be a proper application of Justice if Trump doesn’t get charged first.", ">\n\nOnly problem is that even if their is no wrong doing they will somehow spin it to seem as if the Democrats forced them to stop the investigation or come up with some other type of crazy conspiracy. Not saying this shouldn’t continue but we all know they aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot and then take out their eye in the process due to ricochet.", ">\n\nProbably but you're not going to stop propaganda. Someone can be doing literally nothing, keeping their name out of the news, and Newsmax will put a photo of them up, and claim the person is sundowning because they're not moving, implying it's real time. This happened to Biden at one point even. \nI want to see how this gets handled. As a nation we need to see how it gets handled, because if it is handled in an underhanded way, it truly means there's nothing left of the institutions of our country. So far, all the proper actions have been taken, which is a good thing. The investigation has been moved beyond the reach of politicians, it has been depoliticized by the DoJ, documents were voluntarily turned over, and no one is refusing to cooperate. That is what is supposed to be happening.", ">\n\nGood. I say that as a Biden voter. Do things the way they should be done, cooperate fully, and move on. Demonstrate proper leadership.", ">\n\nYou can't charge a sitting President with a crime. Isn't that what we heard all through the Trump administration? Did that change in January, 2021?", ">\n\nThe crime is not really about having the documents, the main crimes is concealing, destroying and obstruction of justice.", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nAnd again in 22 months when Trump won't shut the fuck up about it in the debates", ">\n\nhis cronies still won't shut up about Clinton's email server. she complied and gave them what they needed. she was found to be in the wrong, but they immediately after this found out that half of trump's team was doing the same lol, but they really latch on to what little they have, as their platform is pretty thin", ">\n\nThe big difference is that it wasn’t illegal when Hillary did it. The laws changed after she stepped down from SOS. It was still bad practice and careless, but was the standard for her predecessors, and she complied with that standard in the absence of laws. \nBy the time trump was on the scene there were laws on it.", ">\n\ninteresting!\nand what's interesting is that he created a law to make punishment more strict for handling of sensitive documents because he wanted it to grill Hillary. the funny thing is, he's in court for the same topic now and his own evil might be his own undoing. that would be the sweetest most ironic form of justice", ">\n\nEh... He's not in court yet. Should have been a long time ago. But he's not.", ">\n\nsadly I think it's because he's in so many haha. how he made it into office with everyone knowing he was a criminal beforehand is just a complete failure", ">\n\nIt sounds like they've searched multiple places where Biden or his team may have kept documents, which I think is reasonable. Was only one Trump property raided?", ">\n\n“They”of course meaning Biden’s staff. They looked around, found stuff and instantly reported it. Had they not done that, we wouldn’t know there was a problem. No warrants or raids required.", ">\n\nInstantly? They had them before the election", ">\n\ninstantly after finding them. not after being asked to return them and saying \"no\". not after then being subpoena'd by the court to return them and lying and saying they're already returned. not after being raided by the FBI for failing to comply to simply requests. like someone else I can think of....", ">\n\nThat was fast compared to how long it took for that other guy who did much worse. Let nobody be under the illusion that the Justice Department is not influenced by politics.", ">\n\nIt was faster because Biden's team proactively informed the authorities and are cooperating.\nTrump's team denied and deflected until an FBI Warrant had to be issued.\nAs the article mentions, the two scenarios are similar in that documents were misplaced, but the scope and scale of the two are markedly different.", ">\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different, because Trump spent months and months fighting to not return the documents, and Biden cooperated quickly (as far as we know so far). There is a significant difference between “Oh shit, we didn’t realize we had these. Here take them; we’ll cooperate to figure out what happened” and “no, it’s okay, because I declassified them by wishing it, also, get a warrant.”\nI’m curious though: this has happened twice now, that we know of—probably more with other presidents and VPs in the past. Is this a failure of the National Archives to keep track of things? Is it an overly rushed exit from the White House causing a disorganized handling of these sorts of documents? The fact itself that the documents are not secured where they’re supposed to be (in both cases) does not necessarily suggest any nefarious intent, but it does show some kind of breakdown in how they’re handled at the end of a term of office.", ">\n\n\nYeah, it’s important for people to understand that this is a bad thing in both cases. BUT the response to the situation is totally different\n\nThe difference in responses likely makes one criminal. Unintentionally mishandling a confidential document is not necessarily a crime. The few cases that have been prosecuted involved people accidentally mishandling a document, realizing it, and then doing nothing about it. Biden's team realized it and then immediately reported it. Should they have been mishandled? Clearly not. But the proper thing to do when that is found out is to report it. The improper and likely criminal thing is to ignore requests for the return of those documents until you have to be raided.", ">\n\nYou also don't want to jail someone if they misplace a document because then you are giving a shiton of incentive to just burn it and tell no one.", ">\n\nYou would want to jail someone for misplacing classified documents if there was some malicious or grossly negligent intent. You would also want to jail someone who failed to comply with requests to return missing documents. It’s up to investigators (the Special Counsels in these cases) to determine levels of intent and cooperation.", ">\n\nThis shit couldn't have happened at a worse time. It's not the same as Trump but that doesn't matter. The optics are shitty and it'll be 2 years of screeching about classified documents and Hunter's dick pics.\nThe worst season of the long-running sitcom \"America\" goes on....", ">\n\nTo the average person It looks the same as what Trump did, and that’s all that matters really.", ">\n\nThat says a lot about the average person smh", ">\n\nMost people are blind to world events, and don’t experience much outside their daily life. This is even more true when you look at a global scale.", ">\n\nanyone know why it took National Archives 6 years to find out these documents were missing?", ">\n\nThings don’t go missing until someone is looking for them.\nMy keys aren’t missing until I need to find them.", ">\n\nAt this point I feel like they're fucking with us. Like everyone in gov't is just outright fucking us. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies that there's some global cabal that is just putting out crazier and crazier shit to keep us distracted. If you don't like this comment I don't give a shit anymore, fuck you.", ">\n\nas it should be; no cover ups, no outrage, no conspiracies - everyone wants to know just what happened and why \nthis is what we call \"normal\" (in case you're a republican)", ">\n\nUntil it comes out that the case with Biden was simply an error and that there was no ill-intent and it all goes away because its a non-issue.\nThen there will be outrage and cries of conspiracy and cover up. By Republicans.", ">\n\nWell they’re the ones in charge of the house. They can do their own investigation if they so please.", ">\n\nLike when they finally investigated Hillary and got her locked up for good!", ">\n\nOh, look. He’s not dragging his feet this time.", ">\n\nHere we go… Next up, the investigation reveals that the docs were planted.", ">\n\nDems really know how to lose when ahead…", ">\n\nHow about finishing the first one.", ">\n\nAs a Democrat who voted for him, if he did something wrong…he should be punished. \nSee? Not that hard.", ">\n\nHaving classified documents scattered around is very troublesome but at least Biden and his camp are fully cooperating with this investigation, which is much more than can be said about Trump and co.", ">\n\nCrazy how an announcement of an investigation over classified documents into the POTUS has 8 comments after an hour, but the post about egg prices has hundreds after half the time….\nCool, good news. We should hold all presidents (past, present, future) accountable for all their actions. If there was a crime, investigate it and go from there. If you have a different opinion, you probably value your party more than your country.", ">\n\nIt's not apparent to me what the different comment rate implies. What are you saying?", ">\n\nThat people should be up in arms and outraged by it or they're biased - except anyone reading behind the headlines can clearly see this isn't an equal event to Trump's documents. It's not news until it is, and it's not there yet. So,\"something something Hunter's laptop Benghazi\" is probably about to make an appearance, next.", ">\n\nThis cuts out the argument from the MAGA lot about how Trump's being unfairly treated over his many classified documents. \n​\nfrom what i've seen, Biden & his team have done things the right way when they've realised there were classified documents stored where they shouldn't be... compared to Trump & his team refusing to cooperate (and potentially moving documents after being told to hand them over).", ">\n\nWhat the fuck are all these idiots doing? I’ve dealt with classified materials since 1999 and, with 24 years of experience, am still paranoid about improperly handling them. \nWhy are is everyone printing this shit out? \nIt is 2023 if you’re too old to read and comprehend a document on a computer screen you need to throw yourself into the sea.", ">\n\nWashington leadership routinely flouts classification rules. That's how we get VPs and former President's taking home documents.\nIt's also why Hillary Clinton felt she could get away with having classified material on her server.", ">\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself. I mean I’m not surprised if classified documents go missing when these guys deal with so much - it’s not good but I can see it happening . It’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.", ">\n\n\nI thinks it’s because they are exposed to it so much it can get intermingled with normal stuff mentally really easy. You have to take a step back and catch yourself.\n\nI'm not so sure about that. You don't get things like Clinton taking an unsecured phone into a SCIF or Trump tweeting out spy satellite photos if they're taking precautions that anyone else would be expected to take.\n\nIt’s what you do when you find it later is what matters.\n\nActually, the DOJ has handled things differently in other cases that don't involve senior Washington politicians. \nWaPo wrote an article back in 2000 that talked about this double standard. The more senior you were, the more likely you were to be let off. This applied even when you bore no ill intent and accidentally took materials away from a secured area. As we can see today, the standard is alive and well. If you're politically powerful in Washington- a \"somebody\"- then you can laugh off charges for mishandling classified material.\n\nMarine Sgt. Rickie L. Roller went to jail for 10 months, forfeited $14,400 in pay, was reduced in rank and was dishonorably discharged after he tossed classified documents into a gym bag when he cleaned out his office at Marine Corps headquarters in Washington to prepare for relocation to a new post in 1989. Roller was prosecuted in a military court for gross negligence in handling classified information, and his conviction was upheld on appeal even though the documents never fell into the hands of a third party.\n\n...\n\nNorman A. Germino, a National Security Agency language analyst, was stripped of his security clearance and dismissed for taking a commercially available map, a list of vocabulary words and some computer instructions home before leaving for an overseas assignment. Germino says he forgot about the materials, which were later found by his ex-wife and reported to the NSA. He contested his dismissal before the Merit Systems Protection Board in 1994, saying the material was not sensitive and the security breach was inadvertent. But his dismissal was upheld.\n\n...\n\nAir Force Staff Sgt. Arthur E. Gonzalez was charged with gross negligence in handling classified information after he inadvertently took two top-secret messages on a military trip to Alaska in 1979. He testified that he realized his error and put the documents in a drawer for safekeeping, then forgot about them when he returned to Elmendorf Air Force Base. He was sentenced by a military court to a bad-conduct discharge and five months in prison.", ">\n\nGood.\nIf I was innocent of wrongdoing, but the circumstances were very complex and specialist, I would want somebody who was familiar (or was gong to make themselves familiar) with the situation. The last thing I'd want is to be in a situation where some slick lawyer could use hearsay & happenstance to confuse a judge or jury into convicting me in a case none of them are qualified to understand.\nIt's hilarious that some idiots see this as a 'Gotcha!'.", ">\n\nAnd here's the difference: As a Democrat who voted for Biden...GOOD!\nIf he did something wrong, we should know. If better procedures need to be in place for reviewing/monitoring/tracking/retrieving classified documents, we should know that too and fix it.", ">\n\nAnd now we see if a crime was committed. \nI just seem to remember ppl being outraged about Trump having documents at his home to begin with. Now it’s ok to do that?", ">\n\nFrom what little I know it doesn’t seem like there was a significant issue (no intentional hiding or obstruction). But this is the right thing to do. Investigate, figure out what happened, then handle it appropriately. \nPersonally I would like to see special counsels set up for each president before they take office and continue to investigate everything they did until there is nothing left to turn over. This level of scrutiny should be the expectation not the exception, and if the press won’t do it Congress or the AG should.", ">\n\nLaw is law. Investigate Biden. I’m sure nothing criminal happened - but investigate. If it was criminal treat it appropriately. Just like for dotard, and just like for anyone else. No one is above the law.", ">\n\nTrump seems to be above the law seeing as how nothings happening to him for his many crimes.", ">\n\nOh good lord. The lawyers found documents and called the National Archives the same day. The next day they had the documents.\nWhat’s the special counsel going to do here?", ">\n\nHead off a GOP circus and put this to bed with facts before it becomes another Benghazi", ">\n\nI am so tired of everything ‘Washington’. Everyone disappoints, sooner or later.", ">\n\n\"Everybody hurts...sometimes\"", ">\n\nProps to Biden here for admitting it and not trying to cover it up.", ">\n\nGarland wasted no time with this 😂 This is going to move faster than the Trump investigation, place your bets.", ">\n\nI am so glad Biden is cooperating and not threatening to fire AG while screaming “witch hunt” the entire time.", ">\n\nNO WAY main stream media would allow this before the midterms.", ">\n\nIf the \"mainstream media\" knew about this before the election why didnt Fox News, the most mainstream of media report on it?\nWe only found out about the Trump situation because he went on social media and started complaining about the FBI searching his resort. This was after many many months of the government trying to get the documents from him with nothing being reported in the news. If anything this shows info about Biden was leaked to the press way faster than the details about Trump were.", ">\n\nFox is the only place that would have reported it...other outlets had sources that knew it, but kept it under wraps until after the election, just like the hunter biden laptop.", ">\n\nNone of any of this would have been an issue if Trump had just returned the documents he stole. We never would have heard about it. It happens all the time, the only time it became an issue is when the ex-President refused to return property that belongs to the American people.\nThat's the crime, not errantly putting a random document in the wrong banker's box.", ">\n\nAgreed, but Biden also having documents shows there is an alarming lack of care and control around classified documents in Washington. How many other politicians have an accidental stash of classified documents forgotten in a closet somewhere?\nUnless evidence of intentional or negligent actions from Biden come to light, I don't see any reason for criminal charges. But I do hope this leads to reform and a crackdown on how classified information is handled.", ">\n\nWe have no idea what the documents are or what level of classification they are. It could have been his personal travel schedule.", ">\n\nAnd?\nIf it is classified it should be handled properly, period. Whether it was supposed to destroyed, returned, or merely remarked when classification ended, that didn't happen. If there were no intentional or flagrantly negligent actions, no criminal charges are necessary. \nThis doesn't appear to be a Trump situation where they were intentionally taken and willfully withheld when asked to return them. But it is still mishandling of classified documents.\nInvestigate it, hopefully clear him of wrongdoing, and lay all the facts out on the table. Then use these incidents as a basis for reforming the system so this shit stops happening." ]