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innovation-hacking2

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shitposting_dataset1

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[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶" ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴" ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem" ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention" ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!" ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nDont take drugs if you dont really need to. Side effects are not always worth it." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nDont take drugs if you dont really need to. Side effects are not always worth it.", ">\n\nGee, I wonder why these pharmaceutical companies like to slip the weight loss as a side effect into the commercials?\nGosh, I can't believe it would be to sell more ?\nThe FCC should tightly regulate these bullshit drug ads.\nThe FCC sure ran hard on radio after Janet Jackson slipped a tit on television." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nDont take drugs if you dont really need to. Side effects are not always worth it.", ">\n\nGee, I wonder why these pharmaceutical companies like to slip the weight loss as a side effect into the commercials?\nGosh, I can't believe it would be to sell more ?\nThe FCC should tightly regulate these bullshit drug ads.\nThe FCC sure ran hard on radio after Janet Jackson slipped a tit on television.", ">\n\nYou think it's a good thing that people will gain weight back? Why? What is your logic other than spite and self righteousness?" ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nDont take drugs if you dont really need to. Side effects are not always worth it.", ">\n\nGee, I wonder why these pharmaceutical companies like to slip the weight loss as a side effect into the commercials?\nGosh, I can't believe it would be to sell more ?\nThe FCC should tightly regulate these bullshit drug ads.\nThe FCC sure ran hard on radio after Janet Jackson slipped a tit on television.", ">\n\nYou think it's a good thing that people will gain weight back? Why? What is your logic other than spite and self righteousness?", ">\n\nYou nailed it." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nDont take drugs if you dont really need to. Side effects are not always worth it.", ">\n\nGee, I wonder why these pharmaceutical companies like to slip the weight loss as a side effect into the commercials?\nGosh, I can't believe it would be to sell more ?\nThe FCC should tightly regulate these bullshit drug ads.\nThe FCC sure ran hard on radio after Janet Jackson slipped a tit on television.", ">\n\nYou think it's a good thing that people will gain weight back? Why? What is your logic other than spite and self righteousness?", ">\n\nYou nailed it.", ">\n\nI think that for non-diabetics, this should be treated as a PED. And therefore not to be used except in rare circumstances." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nDont take drugs if you dont really need to. Side effects are not always worth it.", ">\n\nGee, I wonder why these pharmaceutical companies like to slip the weight loss as a side effect into the commercials?\nGosh, I can't believe it would be to sell more ?\nThe FCC should tightly regulate these bullshit drug ads.\nThe FCC sure ran hard on radio after Janet Jackson slipped a tit on television.", ">\n\nYou think it's a good thing that people will gain weight back? Why? What is your logic other than spite and self righteousness?", ">\n\nYou nailed it.", ">\n\nI think that for non-diabetics, this should be treated as a PED. And therefore not to be used except in rare circumstances.", ">\n\nI’ve had problems getting it for the past 3 months. Had t send me to a different pharmacy last time. Poorer side of town." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nDont take drugs if you dont really need to. Side effects are not always worth it.", ">\n\nGee, I wonder why these pharmaceutical companies like to slip the weight loss as a side effect into the commercials?\nGosh, I can't believe it would be to sell more ?\nThe FCC should tightly regulate these bullshit drug ads.\nThe FCC sure ran hard on radio after Janet Jackson slipped a tit on television.", ">\n\nYou think it's a good thing that people will gain weight back? Why? What is your logic other than spite and self righteousness?", ">\n\nYou nailed it.", ">\n\nI think that for non-diabetics, this should be treated as a PED. And therefore not to be used except in rare circumstances.", ">\n\nI’ve had problems getting it for the past 3 months. Had t send me to a different pharmacy last time. Poorer side of town.", ">\n\nOr the manufacturers are creating an artificial shortage to drive the price up." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nDont take drugs if you dont really need to. Side effects are not always worth it.", ">\n\nGee, I wonder why these pharmaceutical companies like to slip the weight loss as a side effect into the commercials?\nGosh, I can't believe it would be to sell more ?\nThe FCC should tightly regulate these bullshit drug ads.\nThe FCC sure ran hard on radio after Janet Jackson slipped a tit on television.", ">\n\nYou think it's a good thing that people will gain weight back? Why? What is your logic other than spite and self righteousness?", ">\n\nYou nailed it.", ">\n\nI think that for non-diabetics, this should be treated as a PED. And therefore not to be used except in rare circumstances.", ">\n\nI’ve had problems getting it for the past 3 months. Had t send me to a different pharmacy last time. Poorer side of town.", ">\n\nOr the manufacturers are creating an artificial shortage to drive the price up.", ">\n\nThere was a shortage of pens for Mounjaro" ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nDont take drugs if you dont really need to. Side effects are not always worth it.", ">\n\nGee, I wonder why these pharmaceutical companies like to slip the weight loss as a side effect into the commercials?\nGosh, I can't believe it would be to sell more ?\nThe FCC should tightly regulate these bullshit drug ads.\nThe FCC sure ran hard on radio after Janet Jackson slipped a tit on television.", ">\n\nYou think it's a good thing that people will gain weight back? Why? What is your logic other than spite and self righteousness?", ">\n\nYou nailed it.", ">\n\nI think that for non-diabetics, this should be treated as a PED. And therefore not to be used except in rare circumstances.", ">\n\nI’ve had problems getting it for the past 3 months. Had t send me to a different pharmacy last time. Poorer side of town.", ">\n\nOr the manufacturers are creating an artificial shortage to drive the price up.", ">\n\nThere was a shortage of pens for Mounjaro", ">\n\nIf you are obese, can you get a prescription for this? How soon do you notice results?" ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nDont take drugs if you dont really need to. Side effects are not always worth it.", ">\n\nGee, I wonder why these pharmaceutical companies like to slip the weight loss as a side effect into the commercials?\nGosh, I can't believe it would be to sell more ?\nThe FCC should tightly regulate these bullshit drug ads.\nThe FCC sure ran hard on radio after Janet Jackson slipped a tit on television.", ">\n\nYou think it's a good thing that people will gain weight back? Why? What is your logic other than spite and self righteousness?", ">\n\nYou nailed it.", ">\n\nI think that for non-diabetics, this should be treated as a PED. And therefore not to be used except in rare circumstances.", ">\n\nI’ve had problems getting it for the past 3 months. Had t send me to a different pharmacy last time. Poorer side of town.", ">\n\nOr the manufacturers are creating an artificial shortage to drive the price up.", ">\n\nThere was a shortage of pens for Mounjaro", ">\n\nIf you are obese, can you get a prescription for this? How soon do you notice results?", ">\n\nI’ve been in Mounjaro since September 7th down 30lbs and have retained and gained muscle. I got grandfathered into a $25 per month coupon until June. All Mounjaro will be back in stock January 15th the shortage was with the pens not the actual medicine" ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nDont take drugs if you dont really need to. Side effects are not always worth it.", ">\n\nGee, I wonder why these pharmaceutical companies like to slip the weight loss as a side effect into the commercials?\nGosh, I can't believe it would be to sell more ?\nThe FCC should tightly regulate these bullshit drug ads.\nThe FCC sure ran hard on radio after Janet Jackson slipped a tit on television.", ">\n\nYou think it's a good thing that people will gain weight back? Why? What is your logic other than spite and self righteousness?", ">\n\nYou nailed it.", ">\n\nI think that for non-diabetics, this should be treated as a PED. And therefore not to be used except in rare circumstances.", ">\n\nI’ve had problems getting it for the past 3 months. Had t send me to a different pharmacy last time. Poorer side of town.", ">\n\nOr the manufacturers are creating an artificial shortage to drive the price up.", ">\n\nThere was a shortage of pens for Mounjaro", ">\n\nIf you are obese, can you get a prescription for this? How soon do you notice results?", ">\n\nI’ve been in Mounjaro since September 7th down 30lbs and have retained and gained muscle. I got grandfathered into a $25 per month coupon until June. All Mounjaro will be back in stock January 15th the shortage was with the pens not the actual medicine", ">\n\nAs an overweight person who takes Ozempic for diabetes, screw everyone who is taking it off-label for weight loss. It has been a pain in the ass to get it refilled for the past several months, and those gaps where I can't get my hands on any are far more harmful to my health than it is to theirs. \nThose taking it for weight loss should stick to their own branding. It should be prohibited to prescribe the doses diabetics need for any purpose other than diabetes." ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nDont take drugs if you dont really need to. Side effects are not always worth it.", ">\n\nGee, I wonder why these pharmaceutical companies like to slip the weight loss as a side effect into the commercials?\nGosh, I can't believe it would be to sell more ?\nThe FCC should tightly regulate these bullshit drug ads.\nThe FCC sure ran hard on radio after Janet Jackson slipped a tit on television.", ">\n\nYou think it's a good thing that people will gain weight back? Why? What is your logic other than spite and self righteousness?", ">\n\nYou nailed it.", ">\n\nI think that for non-diabetics, this should be treated as a PED. And therefore not to be used except in rare circumstances.", ">\n\nI’ve had problems getting it for the past 3 months. Had t send me to a different pharmacy last time. Poorer side of town.", ">\n\nOr the manufacturers are creating an artificial shortage to drive the price up.", ">\n\nThere was a shortage of pens for Mounjaro", ">\n\nIf you are obese, can you get a prescription for this? How soon do you notice results?", ">\n\nI’ve been in Mounjaro since September 7th down 30lbs and have retained and gained muscle. I got grandfathered into a $25 per month coupon until June. All Mounjaro will be back in stock January 15th the shortage was with the pens not the actual medicine", ">\n\nAs an overweight person who takes Ozempic for diabetes, screw everyone who is taking it off-label for weight loss. It has been a pain in the ass to get it refilled for the past several months, and those gaps where I can't get my hands on any are far more harmful to my health than it is to theirs. \nThose taking it for weight loss should stick to their own branding. It should be prohibited to prescribe the doses diabetics need for any purpose other than diabetes.", ">\n\nI’m with you, but I don’t blame the consumers for seeking out a medication to improve the obesity repercussions they’re dealing with. Especially when they’re being bombarded with ads \nThe truth is the two companies (Novo and Eli Lilly) are desperately fighting for future market share of the GLP1 obesity market and over marketed the obesity indication before they had the manufacturing capacity to meet demand. These two companies are projected to be top pharma earners for year-on-year revenue in 2023" ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nDont take drugs if you dont really need to. Side effects are not always worth it.", ">\n\nGee, I wonder why these pharmaceutical companies like to slip the weight loss as a side effect into the commercials?\nGosh, I can't believe it would be to sell more ?\nThe FCC should tightly regulate these bullshit drug ads.\nThe FCC sure ran hard on radio after Janet Jackson slipped a tit on television.", ">\n\nYou think it's a good thing that people will gain weight back? Why? What is your logic other than spite and self righteousness?", ">\n\nYou nailed it.", ">\n\nI think that for non-diabetics, this should be treated as a PED. And therefore not to be used except in rare circumstances.", ">\n\nI’ve had problems getting it for the past 3 months. Had t send me to a different pharmacy last time. Poorer side of town.", ">\n\nOr the manufacturers are creating an artificial shortage to drive the price up.", ">\n\nThere was a shortage of pens for Mounjaro", ">\n\nIf you are obese, can you get a prescription for this? How soon do you notice results?", ">\n\nI’ve been in Mounjaro since September 7th down 30lbs and have retained and gained muscle. I got grandfathered into a $25 per month coupon until June. All Mounjaro will be back in stock January 15th the shortage was with the pens not the actual medicine", ">\n\nAs an overweight person who takes Ozempic for diabetes, screw everyone who is taking it off-label for weight loss. It has been a pain in the ass to get it refilled for the past several months, and those gaps where I can't get my hands on any are far more harmful to my health than it is to theirs. \nThose taking it for weight loss should stick to their own branding. It should be prohibited to prescribe the doses diabetics need for any purpose other than diabetes.", ">\n\nI’m with you, but I don’t blame the consumers for seeking out a medication to improve the obesity repercussions they’re dealing with. Especially when they’re being bombarded with ads \nThe truth is the two companies (Novo and Eli Lilly) are desperately fighting for future market share of the GLP1 obesity market and over marketed the obesity indication before they had the manufacturing capacity to meet demand. These two companies are projected to be top pharma earners for year-on-year revenue in 2023", ">\n\nHighly recommend Metformin for people looking for a weight loss supplement. Of course, diet and exercise are needed for results.\nEdit: should’ve mention I was pre-diabetic and the medicine helped me lose the weight and not be pre-diabetic" ]

[ "I'm guessing this is why my doctor was asking me yesterday whether my pharmacy was having difficulty delivering my trulicity to me. I had a three month supply so I haven't had to fill it lately. Here's hoping I can get it when I need it.", ">\n\nI'm on ozempic, my pharmacy gives me a month's supply even though it's supposed to be 3 months. The hassle between them and insurance has been epic", ">\n\nI’m not on ozempic but it really is fucked how any step of the process can just override your doctor and say nope! This is all you’re getting! Or just refuse to dispense/cover a drug at all, even if they’re not supposed to. Appeals and bureaucracy don’t mean shit when you need your medicine TODAY.", ">\n\nI’ve had a wicked cough going back to November. My doc prescribed me a couple drugs to help and he wrote the scrip for the generic versions. Get to the pharmacy and learn my insurance doesn’t cover generic. I had a wtf moment. I’ve ordered generic through them in the past with no problems and can’t figure out why they are forcing us to spend more money on the branded stuff.", ">\n\nThat's so bizarre when my insurance for example will not pay for brand at all. you're paying essentially cash unless the only reason is that the generic is unavailable. why would anyone pay a penny more for \"brand\" chemicals??? I get that sometimes there are weird time release systems, or anti-abuse mechanisms such as with ADHD meds, but in most cases it's like paying $100 more for baking soda because it's \"Moderna Sodalite\" brand baking soda, now in 4 yummy colors!", ">\n\nThat’s where I’m confused. Why are they forcing us to pay for a higher cost item? Makes no sense.", ">\n\nBecause that fattens the wallets of the board and shareholders of “higher cost item’s” company. \nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.", ">\n\n\nPrivatize it already. Healthcare should never have been allowed to be treated like a fucking commodity in the first place.\n\nThe same standard should apply to ANYTHING required (in the medical sense, not in the consumerist societal sense) to live. The basic minimums should not be commodities that earn a profit.\nThose basic minimums should only be able to charge a regulated cost that covers absolutely no profit anywhere in the entire chain.\nIf a person wants more than the basic minimums, then of course they should have the choice to pay for those.", ">\n\nI was on a migraine medication that is also popular for weight loss. I did lose a lot of weight, which wasn't bad but I also would sometimes not feel my nose, had weird out of body feelings sometimes and boughts of nausea. Finally stopped taking it because I realized it really did live up to its nickname dopamax.", ">\n\nOh God Topomax is awful. I have been on that in the past and it really does affect your memory and cognition.", ">\n\nSame with Sumatriptan.", ">\n\nSumatriptan is a nasty drug. Temporary relief that builds into rebound headaches when you take it too often.", ">\n\nSumatriptan, rebound headaches are the worst! Sumatriptan - Imitrex does work great with minimal side effects but you have to be very careful with it and only take a small dose in frequent if you don’t want those horrid rebound headaches", ">\n\nI've had severe migraines since I was a small child (34 now) and I've tried basically all the anti-migraine drugs in existence. The only thing that works for me - without side effects that are basically just as bad as the migraine itself - is to quickly realize I'm about to have one and take 3 Excedrin within minutes of first starting to feel the pressure behind my eyes. It's a short window, and if I miss it, the Excedrin can't really do much. I guess it interrupts whatever cascade of events turns into a migraine. Excedrin is just acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine, so I'm not sure how it does it, but it works for me.\nMy headaches were so bad when I was a kid that I used to vomit and then pass out from the pain, and the funny part is they came on a schedule (around 2pm every Tuesday) so I guess they were technically cluster headaches. I'm just glad puberty made them less severe, although they're pretty random now so I can't schedule around them.", ">\n\nThat’s awesome Excedrin will work for you. I tried it, and it made no difference. But I agree like taking it within a small window when you just start to feel it is key. That’s key for whether it’s Excedrin, or sumatriptan.\nOne good thing about getting into my early 40s my migraines are much less severe than when I was younger.", ">\n\nI used to laugh when people would tell me to take that for my headaches. When one starts if I don’t catch it I’m doomed. The neurologist looked surprised when I told him they last about 11 hours. Sometimes I think he should retire.🙄", ">\n\nOh man, it’s the worst when medical professionals don’t understand migraines and are dismissive. There’s hardly anything worse than an extreme migraine. Even a basic migraine that I don’t catch soon enough with medication will cause me a days worth of debilitating pain, nausea, and wearing my sunglasses because of light sensitivity.", ">\n\nI got a migraine after taking a physical exam with a new sinus infection that I hadn’t caught on to yet. It was one of the most painful experiences of my life, I took about 30 minutes to try to relax and catch my breath before getting in my car, and still had to pull over once I got out of the parking lot", ">\n\narticles like this will increase the popularity of Ozempic as a weight loss drug. The irony.", ">\n\nWell they mention it like 10x during commercials, so seems to be the plan. How else they gonna be able to overcharge and things like that.", ">\n\nReally, the commercials I see for it don't mention what it does - it even makes a point of not telling you. I find these ads should be outlawed, if you advertise a medical product you should be required to disclose what's it's used for. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. And of course I cannot find these ads now.", ">\n\nCanada has laws against drug advertisements, which the drug companies get around by not telling you what it does and saying to simply \"ask your doctor about it\".\nPersonally, I think that all drug advertisements to the general public should be illegal. Including the ones using this loophole. Let the doctors worry about which drugs their patients should be on, and don't advertise directly to the patients at all. \nCanada has the right idea, but the law doesn't go far enough.", ">\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\nAlso why I've turned to 'alternative sources: for TV.\nI'm not going to ask my doctor about drugs - that's his job. I bring the symptom, he brings the cure. Nothing else needs to be said.", ">\n\n\nAbsolutely. I'm tired of watching a show and being bombarded by drug ads for 10 minutes every time and their 500 side effects.\n\nOh, man. That reminds me of one I saw a while back where listing the side effects took longer than the actual ad. Who sees something like that and thinks, \"Yeah, that sounds like something to talk to my doctor about!\"", ">\n\nIt's when they say 'other cancers and death have been observed' that you think...'hmm...maybe ill just stick with what i've got'.", ">\n\nFyi for anyone on ozempic struggling to get it, I manage a pharmacy and one of the reps came and talked to me a few days ago. They’ve supposedly greatly increased their ability to manufacture the product and expect the shortages to be just about fully resolved. 2 of the strengths are “order only” so will only ship with a valid script, the other is in full distribution, can’t remember which dose that was though. But hopefully they’ve resolved most of their issues. Carry on", ">\n\nThey've been saying this since I was originally prescribed it last June. I ended up being put on an earlier version, Saxenda (Liraglutide) until it \"became available again\". I will believe it when I see it.", ">\n\nWegovy’s site says they should be open/distributing to most retail pharmacies. Try calling them, especially cvs, which apparently has a special thing with them or something idk.", ">\n\nThat’s unfortunately where my script has been sitting for six months lol. Probably need a new one at this point. But there’s always Terzepitide!! (The newest of the class of drugs, name brand Mounjaro)", ">\n\nI tried messaging my doctor about it but unfortunately it was intercepted by a nurse who said “it sounds like things have changed for you! You should schedule an appointment with your doctor to discuss these changes.” I’m like no?? it’s literally the same medication but you just have to specify ozembic for a pre-diabetic instead of wegovy??", ">\n\nThe idea that an insurance company or pharmacy can limit what your Doctor prescribes is probably one of the most insulting and criminal things. Period.\nIt’s gross in it’s conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to dictate anything about medical supplies. Because let’s be serious here, that is who is running this game. The whole American Healthcare system is run by these companies for no other reason than to make infinite money every year in perpetuity for their share/stakeholders. Patients, doctors, pharmacists be damned. It’s not to provide healthcare to people.", ">\n\nLack of universal health care w/o control by pharmacy and provider cartels is one of the top threats to the stability of the US. The entire nation becomes less healthy every year so where is Congress? Not being forced to act because it's hard, they have theirs and without it being an issue partisan propaganda loses a big deal. Citizens need to demand better.", ">\n\nThere’s been several people in my bariatric surgery men’s support group online that have posted recommending Ozempic to help boost weight loss, and quite a few people have replied calling them selfish assholes for using it even after having WLS and making it hard to get for diabetics who actually need it.", ">\n\nof course, being overweight is a huge cause of type 2 diabetes so ....\nseems like a pretty appropriate use actually", ">\n\nI'm an obesity and weight management scientist. It's a fantastic use. All of this family of drugs are going to be used primarily for weight management in the future. We have way less effective interventions for obesity than diabetes, and for the majority (but certainly not all) it will reduce the number of new cases of diabetes.", ">\n\nIt's too bad they are all 800 to 1k a month atm.", ">\n\nMy doctor actually just recommended ozempic for me to try for weight loss. It was $2000 with my insurance so we went with metformin and it’s $7. It’s been working well for me as a appetite suppressant.", ">\n\nOn the bright side, metformin has been shown to have anti cancer and anti-aging effects in humans.\nSource - NCBI\nSource - Harvard", ">\n\nApologies for being that person, but my dad is an example of the flip side of this. He'd been taking Metformin, and it damaged his kidneys. Worse, his doctor had noticed signs of kidney failure and didn't communicate that to him, so they kept prescribing it to him.\nHis doctor retired, and the new one saw all of this in his chart and immediately stopped the Metformin. By that point, it was stage 4. My dad is now on dialysis with 10% kidney function.", ">\n\nSorry to hear that. Sounds like he had a crap doctor.", ">\n\nI am an obesity and weight management researcher. Although I have worked on studies involving diabetes, most of my work is explicitly focused on weight management, eating, and obesity rather than diabetes itself.\nBecause of that, my NIH funding comes through NIDDK, the institute focused on diabetes. Most researchers and clinicians are excited by being able to use this class of drugs for folks with obesity and overweight. It likely would have a bigger impact on diabetes than as a direct treatment for diabetes. The problem with finding them varies based on the specific drug but often relates to the actual delivery mechanism rather than the drug itself being in shortage. But that varies. The use for cosmetic reasons is very questionable, but also not likely to be a major driver of shortages.\nUnfortunately obesity (and to a lesser extent diabetes as well) is often treated as a moral failing like drug and alcohol abuse with people more focused on blaming the folks with it rather than on actual effective solutions. Not only is this unhelpful, but it also involves an extremely simplistic understanding of both the biological and behavioral factors involved. It's always so disheartening to see.", ">\n\nJust look at some of the comments here alone. Many people saying “stop being lazy and move more” as opposed to accepting that obesity is out of many peoples control and some people are even genetically predisposed to be overweight. Ive seen and read about fecal transplants as a way to change the bacteria in your belly to help with obesity. \nFor many people it is not a matter of “move more, eat less”.", ">\n\nIdk I’m definitely aware that there are genetic factors and stuff but if people “move more and eat less” they will lose weight. Often times people just can’t control their cravings or don’t have the energy to move more. It can’t all be genetic, when we know for a fact that the rate of obesity has increased so quickly in America. This is why ultimately I think the blame falls on environmental factors and what are the environmental factors unique to America? Unbridled Capitalism, that is what I think is ultimately to blame. Overworked, tired people without enough money, hope, or free time.", ">\n\nNo, you are right. At its simplest form, that is correct. Move more, eat less, lose weight. True. Honestly I am not arguing that. My point is that, for many people, that isn’t enough. You make a great point, maybe some people confuse genetically predisposed with environmental factors. Many people I know were raised that “growing boys eat more” or “dont leave until your plate is empty” and your plate is like 4 days worth of meals. This is ingrained into many peoples cultures and minds, creating bad habits that eventually become a families normal, which is then passed down, creating new generations of obese people who only know these habits. You make another good point; poor, tired, overworked people wanting fast easy meals. “I just worked 12 hours, i have $8, mcdonalds is right there…” which becomes a multiple time a week trip now. \nI believe these drugs are a great tool to add to the arsenal of weight loss changes. These drugs can help you get to a healthier base, and hopefully many of these people are creating new habits along with these weight loss tools, which ultimately will be what keeps the weight off. But i am all for using these drugs to help the obese population. Many of these people are already prediabetic, so why not stop the prediabetes before it becomes diabetes.", ">\n\nTo add to this, a lot of people don’t realize that most obese people also intersect with poverty since cheap fatty/processed food is much cheaper and more readily available in a lot of poorer communities than fresh/healthy or unprocessed foods.\nUnless you live near farms in rural areas, most of the people in the same income bracket only have access to shitty food that forms shitty habits and creates more obese people.", ">\n\nHonestly, living in a rural area near a farm (at least in the US) likely makes your food quality worse, not better. When there is nothing but corn and soy for miles around, your fresh veggies are just the leftovers from whatever city is closest.\nThe only real option there is to find someone with a large garden or to grow your own.", ">\n\nIf you live out in a rural area surrounded by farms there's a good chance the only store for a long ways around is a Dollar General or Family Dollar and whatever produce or whatever is growing around you isn't even being sold there.", ">\n\nI'm Canadian, so we don't get a lot of drug commercials the way that the US does, but even cinemas here have started showing Ozempic ads before the film. It's insane the hold this drug has on people.", ">\n\nHonestly - these drugs are magical for people who have struggled with weight issues their whole life. I’m not surprised it’s become so popular.", ">\n\nMagical for people with diabetes as well. In some cases they can go from daily shots to one weekly injection. Not to mention the tie in of diabetes and weight issues.", ">\n\nIt helped my blood sugar control better than anything else I’ve tried for a month. Probably because of the constant nausea. The weight loss crowd can have at it.", ">\n\nI understand the frustration, but preventative care is a valid reason to get on semaglutide. Imagine if all diseases could be prevented? \nI’m pre-diabetic and am on it to prevent T2D, which my dad struggled with.", ">\n\nthe thing is, ozempic is approved by the fda for blood sugar management only. there are similar drugs, wegovy, saxenda, approved specifically for weight loss. it was those going on backorder & being expensive that caused people to start wrecking the supply of ozempic (going off-label.)\nwe get that losing weight can prevent type 2 diabetes but it's so so frustrating that diabetics that have been having good results with ozempic (a once weekly injection that also needs to be titrated to their prescribed dose) suddenly have to switch, go without, or manage with daily injections and whatnot. \n(I work in a pharmacy but just a tech)", ">\n\nI know that. wegovy and ozempic are literally the same drug with different doses and \"approved\" indications. ozempic shortages werent an issue until those other ones went on backorder. That's why docs went off label. \nIt just blows for people who use it and have been using it for their diabetes to deal with shortages. the pens arent like insulin pens that can be dialed to a specific amount of units prn. so its not like people can ration their ozempic.\nall that being said, this situation sucks for everyone. i wish everyone could get the medication they needed.", ">\n\nMaybe losing weight will help decrease the number of diabetics?", ">\n\nThis situation is probably more complicated than the article is describing. They talk about the life-threatening consequences of uncontrolled diabetes but fail to clearly explain how morbid obesity can be equally life threatening. \nMany of you may already know about comorbidities: a condition where two or more diseases exacerbate one another in a way that makes both of them difficult to treat. The simplest example I can think of is a knee pain and weight gain. A knee condition makes it difficult for the patient to exercise, so they gain weight. Carrying an additional 10 pounds of weight puts an additional 50 pounds of pressure on the knee. This makes the knee pain worse and the cycle continues. An appropriate treatment plan will need to consider both conditions or neither will meaningfully improve.\nMorbid obesity is dangerous because it can complex with numerous conditions; the most dangerous of which are high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, coronary artery disease, and asthma.\nIt should additionally be mentioned that a person may need to lose weight before they can undergo surgery. Surgery can't be performed safely over a certain weight and they may not have 3 years to lose weight. They'll need something quickly.\nYou might think that \"all a fat person needs to do is stop eating\". But again, it's more complicated than that. For example, a glaring indication of uncontrolled diabetes is uncontrolled weight gain or weight loss. Comorbid conditions can interfere with the way the body stores or releases energy from food, this making weight loss without medication exceedingly difficult.\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state. I'm sure there are doctors that would proscribe it frivolously, but that can be dealt with the same way prescription pain killers are dealt with: force doctors to document, fine them when they don't.\nWhat I'm saying is that both diabetics and the obese may genuinely need this medication. We should be focusing on alleviating the bottleneck instead of judging the patients that use it.", ">\n\n\n\"But what about people that are using the medication to lose 10 pounds while they eat poorly?\" The article didn't say whether these people would qualify for a prescription. When I worked in a bariatric clinic, a patient had to have a BMI of 35 or 28 with 3 comorbid conditions before they could be prescribed medication. In other words, you had to be in a serious state.\n\nI had basically this typed up as a response to someone saying that people shouldn't be taking medications needed to control diabetes \"just\" to control their weight.\nThis is dead on- I am a weight loss surgery patient who took Ozempic temporarily just before my surgery. My GP is the one who prescribed it, not my surgeon, because my pre op labs indicated that while my fatty liver had improved with the ~30 lbs I lost in that 6 month pre-op window, it was still of concern for surgery. I lost about 15 extra pounds and between that and the 2 week liquid diet my liver was in perfect condition for surgery.\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it. It's actually really hard on the body, too, and I actually developed acute pancreatitis as a side effect from it. When a doctor prescribes this medication they are doing so because the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. And as much as insurance companies love to deny medications that they deem \"not medically necessary\" I can promise you that no one is taking this to lose weight unless they have to.", ">\n\n\nNo one is prescribing this drug for people who are not in dire need of it.\n\nTell that to the owner of my company who is using it for casual weight-loss. He's not even a big guy by any definition, he just put a few extra on over the last couple years, has the means, and is paying cash. \nThere are definitely doctors out there who will prescribe pretty much anything you want if you are in their circle.", ">\n\nTime to make it public domain and pay off the patent owner. When a medecine is that efficient at treating a disease, we need to make it easier to produce.", ">\n\nPatent bounties have been proposed as a possible alternative incentive structure. If you create a useful drug, you get a fat cash prize from public coffers. Then anyone can manufacture the drug, and market competition will bring costs down for consumers.", ">\n\nI’ve seen several friends complaining about people taking this for weight loss being selfish but wouldn’t losing weight help prevent those people from becoming diabetic? If they become diabetic wouldn’t there also be more people trying to get the drug for diabetes management?", ">\n\nYes. \nObesity also causes sleep apnea, severe joint pain, amongst many other issues. Getting weight off reduces and prevents these. \nOzempic can treat more than one disease just like many other drugs. Doctors aren’t doing anything wrong prescribing it to help with obesity.", ">\n\nWhat's up with all the medication shortages. I can't get my adhd meds either.", ">\n\nDoesn’t it require prescription?", ">\n\nWas on Ozempic, was doing great to help my T2 under control and lose weight. \nNow on the Oral form. Actually much cheaper for me.", ">\n\nHey man that's awesome :)", ">\n\nObesity is also a dangerous medical condition that is a risk factor for many dangerous illnesses (including diabetes type 2)\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\nIf this medicine can successfully lead to weight loss without too many dangerous side effects than obese people also have a medical need for it.", ">\n\n\nThe VAST people fail to change their eating behavior on their own.\n\nThis is what gets me. I try to not belittle peoples health struggles and remind myself that it's more complicated than this, but it seems like a lot of people would rather choose to die than eat different foods.", ">\n\nSo, if this is how you think. Why can’t diabetics just stop eating all sugars?? If I follow your logic, they should also be able to fully control their disease just by eating differently.", ">\n\nYea, you'd think so.", ">\n\nWell to be fair, losing weight is a great way to prevent diabetes...", ">\n\nThat’s not fair to the people who already have the deadly disease.", ">\n\nWell blame the company for falling short on supply not the people who are using it for legit medical reasons.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter for me my insurance it is still almost $1000 a month. Type 2. Oh well.", ">\n\nObviously not as important as medicine for diabetes but also ADHD medication (adderall & it’s generic) are out of stock until at least June because it’s being prescribed off label for tiredness associated with long Covid. They probably could have used that for weight loss. Maybe they tried. These off label uses need to be tracked for the purposes of tracking production. When it is making it hard to find medications that keep people alive it’s time for a look at how things are broken.", ">\n\nAs someone with ADHD my medication is important. \nThis idea that any medication is more important is weird.\nAlso have been on dex since March of 2021. Done nothing for weight loss.", ">\n\nI agree. I have adhd and I can’t function without mine. But thankfully I won’t go into a coma. I can handle a brief shortage although it will disrupt my life but I’d be terrified if I needed something that literally kept me alive. Thankfully they haven’t messed with Ritalin yet or I may sing a different tune.", ">\n\nAnd a cousin drug, Tirzepatide (Mounjaro), will likely be even more effective looking at the Surmount trials. 10 and 15mg groups lost on average 20% of body mass over 72 week period and sustained losses. That's gastric bypass realm of weight loss", ">\n\nThat and the fact that it's $904 for one pen make it pretty unobtainable. My insurance \"covers\" it, but not before I spend $2,000 myself lol.", ">\n\nClicked this as an Ozempic ad plays on my mom's TV lmao.", ">\n\nI took it for a few months, didn't really feel hungry at the end of the day. But then the pharmacy said it was on back order for months, so I ended up going back to Glipizide, which was cheaper, not used as a weight loss drug and easily in stock.", ">\n\nLiterally 7 posts after this on Reddit I get an Ozempic add of a happy guy playing guitar. Ozempic, yay!", ">\n\nMaybe there's a shortage because reddit gives me ads for Ozempic in my feed constantly. Lose Weight, Feel Great!", ">\n\nWell they literally advertise about its weight loss on TV ads not sure what they thought would happen", ">\n\nOn one hand, I’m glad there is a drug that can help people lose weight, reverse insulin resistance, and stop the metabolic issues before they turn into diabetes. \nBut damn, having diabetes sucks enough. I feel for those who are on this med and can’t find it. \nI’ve had it with American pharmaceutical companies, the DEA, the FDA and every other 3 letter acronym. First Aderrall and Ritalin, then amoxicillin, now this? What will be next? And how is this drug shortage problem remedied?", ">\n\nIt's funny cos if they didn't take the pill they'd end up needing it for it's intended purpose anyways", ">\n\nIt's not a pill, it's a shot. And you have to be in it forever because you'll gain it back when you stop.\nEdit: \nCleveland Clinic: Why People Diet, Lose Weight and Gain It All Back\n\nExperts think as many as 80 to 95% of dieters gain back the weight they’ve worked so hard to lose.", ">\n\nI know someone that's been on it for about a year now. She lost a ton of weight (too much, in my opinion) and swears by it. However, she also has nightmares now that wake her up every night and are causing lots of anxiety and other issues in her life. I definitely think this is for people with no other options. Not for casual weight loss.", ">\n\nYes, I think it's off-label but accepted as a weight loss drug for obese people. It's not for people who want to lose a few pounds.", ">\n\nYeah. Wegovy is the version approved for weight loss; Ozempic is technically only approved diabetes. That said, the only real difference (at least in terms of active ingredient) is that Wegovy is a higher strength.", ">\n\nWell and ozempic is far more likely to be covered by insurance. I’m not aware of a single insurance plan that even partially covers Wegovy", ">\n\nUnited health just approved mine and the copay was only $24 for a month supply", ">\n\nSo make more. Hire temporary workers. Make them permanent. Drug company is making money hand over fist. They have plenty of profit they can plow onto hiring and expansion.", ">\n\nI'm diabetic. Have used the daily form of this (Victoza) for years. When I tried switching to Ozempic I ended up developing terrible stomach pain and ended up in the emergency room. So, yes, I suppose that WILL help a person lose weight!", ">\n\nThis article was researched well enough but good god it's poorly written.", ">\n\nThe problem here is: PHYSICIANS prescribing Ozempic for off-label use.", ">\n\nWegovy is the exact same medication by the exact same manufacturer and specifically for weight loss. It is on-label for treatment of obesity, approved by the FDA for that purpose and everything.\nIt's just two different pens with two different labels. Same exact medication.", ">\n\nMy mom (who is not obese) was keeping her diabetes under control really well with Ozempic until the supply basically dried up due to what her doctor called “the Kardashian effect” of all these fuckers using it as a cosmetic weight loss drug. Now we don’t know how she’s going to manage without it. \nYou know what, screw it, I’m a fatass myself. Prescribe me some of this stuff so I can get it for my mom.", ">\n\nThey had to come up with a completely new request type for prior authorizations at my job just because of the shortages for these medications being used for weight loss. Now it's not just Ozempic, but also Trulicity and other medications that are \"diagnosis restricted\" and cannot be covered for weight loss. Pharmacies have to enter a diagnosis code for type 2 diabetes to get paid claims for medications that didn't used to require any sort of prior authorization. I'm sure other pharmacy benefit managers like my company have had to do the same thing.", ">\n\nMy doctor put me on it. Took my first dose on Monday. First time in my life I haven’t craved food. Insane. And I’m only on a quarter of the dose you eventually end up on. It should be free to all of us diabetic fatties.", ">\n\nI'm one of these people. It's annoying, but...\nUltimately this is great news, because it means a particular medication is highly effective and makes things better for everyone. The only problem is supply, which will take time to fix.", ">\n\nI'm a diabetic who had to get off Ozempic thanks to this. I'd have to run around to multiple pharmacies just to find a pen. Sometimes, I'd have to order two weeks in advance to get one.\nI'm so pissed off to find out this is why.", ">\n\nOh no people are trying to prevent developing diabeties. Those bastards.", ">\n\nThis is a good example of why the US should ban pharmaceutical advertising. People see those commercials and think they absolutely need those drugs and then there's a shortage for people who actually do need the drug as instructed by their doctor without pressure from the patient.", ">\n\nI was given 6 week ozempic samples from my doctor because we couldn’t get it filled. Now my insurance is denying the pre-auth he provided for both \n/either Ozempic and Mounjaro. \nIt’s a shitshow.", ">\n\nI guess those stupid \"OH...?\" commercials are more effective than I thought. The ones where they show people doing fun and meaningful things to distract you while the announcer lists off all of the horrible potential side effects.\nRIP the guy teaching group guitar lessons.", ">\n\nMy dr is going to start me on it for weight loss but we’re going to go through a compounding pharmacy.", ">\n\nHusband has had trouble getting it filled when they increased his dose.", ">\n\nSo is this a drug diabetics are meant to stay on indefinitely? What happens when you get off it and maintain your caloric surplus?", ">\n\nThis feels like an advertisement", ">\n\nnot just Ozempic, any semaglutide. And it being a weightloss drug isn't new, they knew that it could help with this.", ">\n\nPretty sure 60 minutes just did a thing about this.", ">\n\nPlus that banging ass theme song.", ">\n\nThe problem is two fold. None of my wholesalers have it and even if they did most insurance claims are in the red. I'm at the point now where I probably won't dispense it at all", ">\n\nNot on Ozempic, but this made me wonder if the same thing has anything to do with the constant adderall shortage?", ">\n\nThis stuff is great. I keep a supply in my drawer in case I want to lose a few pounds here and there.", ">\n\nThe demand is insane. It’s been mfr back ordered for months and when we do get some in we have a massive backlog of orders to catch up on.", ">\n\nSame, it fucking sucks. Same with Adderall. Please people reading this don't be angry at your pharmacy staff. We order this shit every day and they usually just don't send it to us. \nIf you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at the drug manufacturer that force feeds you ozempic ads every day and yet can't meet the demand for the product. \nLike hey assholes, maybe if your product is 6 weeks backordered you could hold off a couple weeks on the advertisements.", ">\n\nYou can thank celebrities for this", ">\n\nYep celebrities are literally throwing “ozempic parties” and shooting each other up to lose weight as if they don’t have the means to get weight loss surgery instead and a lot of them aren’t even fat. It’s a disgusting trend.", ">\n\nSauce? Celebs have a million different methods to lose weight, they can afford personal chefs and entire gyms. They don't need this.", ">\n\nall of those methods still require discipline. this drug takes that requirement away since it drastically lowers appetite", ">\n\nMy mom takes this to keep her A1C in check. Idk what to do if i cant get it filled for her. She needs it. Its the only one her insurance will cover. Otherwise its 3000 for a 3 month supply. She pays 9.95.", ">\n\nI have been on this for my diabetes for six months and lost 1 pound. If you are spending 1k a month for this miracle drug you would be better off with a personal trainer.", ">\n\nPeople out there just don’t want to accept that a caloric deficit is the way to go", ">\n\nI feel so bad for my partner, he’s got a good attitude but it just sucks watching the uncertainty, trying to find samples, planning for extended periods of no meds and what could happen. Has to pay ALOT this month due to insurance change he selected months ago?", ">\n\nMeth also helps with weight loss", ">\n\nAlso on Ozempic for diabetes and had to go 2 weeks without it because my pharmacy couldn’t stock it.\nPeople using it for weight loss should go on a wait list.", ">\n\nHeres an idea….\nDONT PRESCRIBE IT TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED IT.", ">\n\nType 2 Diabetes people who are mostly overweight/obese and have other medications to manage their Type 2 Diabetes vs Obese/fat people who have no medicine to manage their disease and might actually avoid Type 2 Diabetes, Heart Attacks, Strokes etc with this medicine.\nDo you treat people that have alternative medicines or do you treat people with no medicines?", ">\n\nSome diabetes medications don't work as well as ozempic and/or have side effects the patients can't manage such as nasuea, vomitting, etc that prevent them from utilizing other medications.", ">\n\nObese people have no medications and Type 2 diabetes patients have quite a few medicines to work through including insulin.", ">\n\nTYPE 2 DIABETICS. Type 1 diabetics don’t need ozempic and don’t like the generalization of “diabetics” in this.", ">\n\nGoogle “celebrity ozempic parties”. Mindy Kaling, Oprah, Adele and others are rumored to be using it for weight loss with I think kaling going on record. \nAs is usually the case, rich people ruining things for everyone else.", ">\n\n\nrumored\n\nDon't believe everything you read on gossip sites/Facebook.", ">\n\nThis is so pathetic. People will do anything to avoid putting in effort. Anything to avoid actually working out.", ">\n\nAmazon Pharmacy doesn't seem to have any issue stocking it.", ">\n\nIt comes with unpleasant side effects and when you quit, many are constantly ravenous and put on more weight than they lost. I was taking Metformin for many years and it destroyed my appetite and i Iost way too much weight. My doctor took me off it in September and my appetite slowly came back, and now I'm hungry all the time, but not ravenous. Metformin seems to be a milder form of this stuff, which is meant for obese diabetics, who really need it.", ">\n\nThe upside of this is less people developing diabetes.", ">\n\nThis woman I know was bitching because her doctor wouldn’t give her Metforman. I kept trying to explain that stuff drys you out and can put you into an early menopause but she didn’t care, she wanted to lose weight the easy way.", ">\n\nMetformin is not an easy way to lose weight.", ">\n\nYa. She’s dumb and crazy which is a horrible combination. Welcome to the World Wide Web. She was my therapist that I quickly fired.", ">\n\nFucking infuriating that diabetic people keep getting the short end of the stick.", ">\n\nCan't help but wonder if they are keeping supplies low to justify higher prices.", ">\n\nPhysician here and I can’t stand the amount of patients that have come in to see me in the last 6 months asking for Ozempic. When I advise them or guide them towards a specific diet regimen and/or exercise routine they just cut me off and say “can you just give me the Ozempic?”. I refuse to because nothing comes without side effects and it’s much better for people to actually do the diet and exercise way but people are lazy and medicine is turning into McDonalds where patients come in and order what they want. It’s annoying and is burning me, and other younger doctors, out badly.\nE - so I guess I need to clarify what I meant by “lazy”. I’m talking about people walking in and sticking their hand out demanding the treatment who haven’t even tried cutting their food down or meeting more. They just want it “because it works” and they “don’t wanna give things up cuz it’ll be too hard.”", ">\n\nAssuming you are not talking about the person with a bmi of 26 who just wants the easy way out of the last 10 lbs…. I suggest spending some time reading a bit more literature on obesity. On a population level diet and weight loss just don’t work. Not because restricting calories and exercise don’t work but because its not maintainable indefinitely for most once their metabolism is screwed up from overeating. If these people had the willpower they wouldn’t be coming to you in the first place.\nPut more simply diet and exercise fail when look at in light of “intention to treat”. Its like prescribing a drug that is 100% effective but has intolerable side effects so no one will take it.\nYou can moralize all you want about it, but you are doing your patients and society harm by not offering effective aids to help people lose weight. It would be like refusing to give chantix because its just a “willpower” thing. The possible side effects of a GLP-1 are VASTLY outweighed by the side effects of severe obesity. It isn’t even close. The NNH of wegovy is like 117 while the nnt is near one if weight loss is the goal and that has huge health benefits in everyone.\nI get the “demanding” shit is annoying, and again you may be referring to patients who really aren’t appropriate for it (eg: dont meet criteria) so I apologize if thats the case.", ">\n\nI appreciate the insight, but I’ve done a good amount of research into obesity. Over the last 2 years the patients who take my advice have lost over 2,500 lbs. What I was referring to in my initial comment is that nobody wants to “try” and just want a quick fix for things. Same holds true for mental health.\nAnd before anyone jumps on me - there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Despite non medical treatments, some people need medications to help with weight loss, anxiety, depression etc… I’m not a pill pusher and get a little annoyed when someone comes to me and literally has tried zero lifestyle modifications.", ">\n\nYeah I agree there are certainly a good subset of people that lack motivation and might do well if they took better care of themselves. Its obviously hard for us to manage that in a 15-30 min session with 8 other problems on the table as well. Patients that aren’t motivated to take care of themselves suck to manage for sure. It is dissatisfying on both sides since they want an instant fix and we usually cant offer one, though I would argue the new glps are close to one. Even if they aren’t motivated I see it as harm reduction at this point in my patients with major downline effects like OHS.\nI agree also asking most patients to try lifestyle modifications first is totally reasonable, and SHOULD generally be done. Your initial post seemed a little ridged but im sure thats just the frustration plus a quick reddit post doesnt lend to nuance lol.", ">\n\nCertain pharmacies have stopped carrying it because of the use case has shifting to weight loss.\nMy mother who is diabetic has not been able to find a local pharmacy that takes her insurance that also carries it.\nI hope the few lost pounds was worth completely fucking over the people that actually need it.", ">\n\nWhile I sympathize, there are a LOT of really good diabetes medications that can be used instead. There is nothing on the market that treats obesity as well as these drugs and it is an epidemic causing a huge host of diseases that could be prevented (including t2 diabetes). I have patients who are literally unable to breath very well because their lugs are being collapsed by weight.\nThe person wanting the drug to lose a few pounds for vanity is a bit of a problem until supply catches up, but its likely not the majority.", ">\n\nOh oh ozempicccc, you knowww, never believe it’s not sooo🎶", ">\n\nWait until they stop using it!!!! It’s all coming back at 2x the weight the lost!!!! But no one is saying that.", ">\n\nWant to guarantee your product sells? Just say it promotes weight loss and even though Ozempic has a long list of side effects, people will take it.", ">\n\nAnything but diet and exercise🥴", ">\n\nSorry to say this, but a lot of Americans dig their graves with their mouths.", ">\n\nWow America, way to solve a problem by creating a problem", ">\n\nConsidering being overweight is a leading cause of diabetes\nseems like an appropriate use\nthe problem is capitalism that misallocates resources\nnot over weight individuals seeking an alternative to surgical intervention", ">\n\nTaking Ozempic is comparable to taking a laxative immediately after you eat. \nOne can eat a shit-ton of garbage, take Ozempic, and have the medication fast-track garbage out of your system. You get the pleasure of eating crap with the discomfort of massive diarrhea about six hours later. \nLaxatives do the same thing. \nIf you’re taking a medication intended for Type 2 Diabetes simply because you don’t want to watch what you eat, then you’re an asshole.", ">\n\nIt seems to do something in regards to inflammation.. It has been observed to improve psoriasis symptoms and certain forms of arthritis. For me all of my psoriasis plaques disappeared 3 months after starting it.. First time I have had completely clear skin in my entire life.", ">\n\nThat's totally fascinating. My son is having a terrible time with his skin. Once the whole supply chain is fixed, I think I'll mention this to his dermatologist.", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nDont take drugs if you dont really need to. Side effects are not always worth it.", ">\n\nGee, I wonder why these pharmaceutical companies like to slip the weight loss as a side effect into the commercials?\nGosh, I can't believe it would be to sell more ?\nThe FCC should tightly regulate these bullshit drug ads.\nThe FCC sure ran hard on radio after Janet Jackson slipped a tit on television.", ">\n\nYou think it's a good thing that people will gain weight back? Why? What is your logic other than spite and self righteousness?", ">\n\nYou nailed it.", ">\n\nI think that for non-diabetics, this should be treated as a PED. And therefore not to be used except in rare circumstances.", ">\n\nI’ve had problems getting it for the past 3 months. Had t send me to a different pharmacy last time. Poorer side of town.", ">\n\nOr the manufacturers are creating an artificial shortage to drive the price up.", ">\n\nThere was a shortage of pens for Mounjaro", ">\n\nIf you are obese, can you get a prescription for this? How soon do you notice results?", ">\n\nI’ve been in Mounjaro since September 7th down 30lbs and have retained and gained muscle. I got grandfathered into a $25 per month coupon until June. All Mounjaro will be back in stock January 15th the shortage was with the pens not the actual medicine", ">\n\nAs an overweight person who takes Ozempic for diabetes, screw everyone who is taking it off-label for weight loss. It has been a pain in the ass to get it refilled for the past several months, and those gaps where I can't get my hands on any are far more harmful to my health than it is to theirs. \nThose taking it for weight loss should stick to their own branding. It should be prohibited to prescribe the doses diabetics need for any purpose other than diabetes.", ">\n\nI’m with you, but I don’t blame the consumers for seeking out a medication to improve the obesity repercussions they’re dealing with. Especially when they’re being bombarded with ads \nThe truth is the two companies (Novo and Eli Lilly) are desperately fighting for future market share of the GLP1 obesity market and over marketed the obesity indication before they had the manufacturing capacity to meet demand. These two companies are projected to be top pharma earners for year-on-year revenue in 2023", ">\n\nHighly recommend Metformin for people looking for a weight loss supplement. Of course, diet and exercise are needed for results.\nEdit: should’ve mention I was pre-diabetic and the medicine helped me lose the weight and not be pre-diabetic", ">\n\nI can't find it now but I was watching a video on YT a few days who where this topic was brought up and people were saying the same thing. It's sad that selfish and stupid people take medication away from those who need it." ]

[]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\")." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know.", ">\n\nRussia will be ruined by the end of this. And I do not doubt that they will have no problem bringing down the rest of humanity with their pathetic asses" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know.", ">\n\nRussia will be ruined by the end of this. And I do not doubt that they will have no problem bringing down the rest of humanity with their pathetic asses", ">\n\nEvery Russia supporter must be tortured by Russians" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know.", ">\n\nRussia will be ruined by the end of this. And I do not doubt that they will have no problem bringing down the rest of humanity with their pathetic asses", ">\n\nEvery Russia supporter must be tortured by Russians", ">\n\nYou know how it's said you shouldn't go after soldiers who were just following orders during wartime? Well, fuck that. I want every piece of shit Russian who willingly participated in this war to pay a very steep price." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know.", ">\n\nRussia will be ruined by the end of this. And I do not doubt that they will have no problem bringing down the rest of humanity with their pathetic asses", ">\n\nEvery Russia supporter must be tortured by Russians", ">\n\nYou know how it's said you shouldn't go after soldiers who were just following orders during wartime? Well, fuck that. I want every piece of shit Russian who willingly participated in this war to pay a very steep price.", ">\n\nI hate humans so much" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know.", ">\n\nRussia will be ruined by the end of this. And I do not doubt that they will have no problem bringing down the rest of humanity with their pathetic asses", ">\n\nEvery Russia supporter must be tortured by Russians", ">\n\nYou know how it's said you shouldn't go after soldiers who were just following orders during wartime? Well, fuck that. I want every piece of shit Russian who willingly participated in this war to pay a very steep price.", ">\n\nI hate humans so much", ">\n\nWhere the heck is Light with his damn Death Note when you need him???" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know.", ">\n\nRussia will be ruined by the end of this. And I do not doubt that they will have no problem bringing down the rest of humanity with their pathetic asses", ">\n\nEvery Russia supporter must be tortured by Russians", ">\n\nYou know how it's said you shouldn't go after soldiers who were just following orders during wartime? Well, fuck that. I want every piece of shit Russian who willingly participated in this war to pay a very steep price.", ">\n\nI hate humans so much", ">\n\nWhere the heck is Light with his damn Death Note when you need him???", ">\n\nAnd there I was complaining about Dick Cheney & the APA.." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know.", ">\n\nRussia will be ruined by the end of this. And I do not doubt that they will have no problem bringing down the rest of humanity with their pathetic asses", ">\n\nEvery Russia supporter must be tortured by Russians", ">\n\nYou know how it's said you shouldn't go after soldiers who were just following orders during wartime? Well, fuck that. I want every piece of shit Russian who willingly participated in this war to pay a very steep price.", ">\n\nI hate humans so much", ">\n\nWhere the heck is Light with his damn Death Note when you need him???", ">\n\nAnd there I was complaining about Dick Cheney & the APA..", ">\n\nchina uyghur genocide is happening too. A lot of good people dying everywhere." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know.", ">\n\nRussia will be ruined by the end of this. And I do not doubt that they will have no problem bringing down the rest of humanity with their pathetic asses", ">\n\nEvery Russia supporter must be tortured by Russians", ">\n\nYou know how it's said you shouldn't go after soldiers who were just following orders during wartime? Well, fuck that. I want every piece of shit Russian who willingly participated in this war to pay a very steep price.", ">\n\nI hate humans so much", ">\n\nWhere the heck is Light with his damn Death Note when you need him???", ">\n\nAnd there I was complaining about Dick Cheney & the APA..", ">\n\nchina uyghur genocide is happening too. A lot of good people dying everywhere.", ">\n\nRussia should have been obliterated after WW2. Let's hope that it's gone for good after this war." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know.", ">\n\nRussia will be ruined by the end of this. And I do not doubt that they will have no problem bringing down the rest of humanity with their pathetic asses", ">\n\nEvery Russia supporter must be tortured by Russians", ">\n\nYou know how it's said you shouldn't go after soldiers who were just following orders during wartime? Well, fuck that. I want every piece of shit Russian who willingly participated in this war to pay a very steep price.", ">\n\nI hate humans so much", ">\n\nWhere the heck is Light with his damn Death Note when you need him???", ">\n\nAnd there I was complaining about Dick Cheney & the APA..", ">\n\nchina uyghur genocide is happening too. A lot of good people dying everywhere.", ">\n\nRussia should have been obliterated after WW2. Let's hope that it's gone for good after this war.", ">\n\nCan we send heavy battletanks to Ukraine already?\nAnd a steady supply of F-16 to allow their airforce to take on a more active role in the fighting instead of how carefull they have to be today" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know.", ">\n\nRussia will be ruined by the end of this. And I do not doubt that they will have no problem bringing down the rest of humanity with their pathetic asses", ">\n\nEvery Russia supporter must be tortured by Russians", ">\n\nYou know how it's said you shouldn't go after soldiers who were just following orders during wartime? Well, fuck that. I want every piece of shit Russian who willingly participated in this war to pay a very steep price.", ">\n\nI hate humans so much", ">\n\nWhere the heck is Light with his damn Death Note when you need him???", ">\n\nAnd there I was complaining about Dick Cheney & the APA..", ">\n\nchina uyghur genocide is happening too. A lot of good people dying everywhere.", ">\n\nRussia should have been obliterated after WW2. Let's hope that it's gone for good after this war.", ">\n\nCan we send heavy battletanks to Ukraine already?\nAnd a steady supply of F-16 to allow their airforce to take on a more active role in the fighting instead of how carefull they have to be today", ">\n\nNot help I MEAN HELL" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know.", ">\n\nRussia will be ruined by the end of this. And I do not doubt that they will have no problem bringing down the rest of humanity with their pathetic asses", ">\n\nEvery Russia supporter must be tortured by Russians", ">\n\nYou know how it's said you shouldn't go after soldiers who were just following orders during wartime? Well, fuck that. I want every piece of shit Russian who willingly participated in this war to pay a very steep price.", ">\n\nI hate humans so much", ">\n\nWhere the heck is Light with his damn Death Note when you need him???", ">\n\nAnd there I was complaining about Dick Cheney & the APA..", ">\n\nchina uyghur genocide is happening too. A lot of good people dying everywhere.", ">\n\nRussia should have been obliterated after WW2. Let's hope that it's gone for good after this war.", ">\n\nCan we send heavy battletanks to Ukraine already?\nAnd a steady supply of F-16 to allow their airforce to take on a more active role in the fighting instead of how carefull they have to be today", ">\n\nNot help I MEAN HELL", ">\n\nAmnesty International has quietly left the chat." ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know.", ">\n\nRussia will be ruined by the end of this. And I do not doubt that they will have no problem bringing down the rest of humanity with their pathetic asses", ">\n\nEvery Russia supporter must be tortured by Russians", ">\n\nYou know how it's said you shouldn't go after soldiers who were just following orders during wartime? Well, fuck that. I want every piece of shit Russian who willingly participated in this war to pay a very steep price.", ">\n\nI hate humans so much", ">\n\nWhere the heck is Light with his damn Death Note when you need him???", ">\n\nAnd there I was complaining about Dick Cheney & the APA..", ">\n\nchina uyghur genocide is happening too. A lot of good people dying everywhere.", ">\n\nRussia should have been obliterated after WW2. Let's hope that it's gone for good after this war.", ">\n\nCan we send heavy battletanks to Ukraine already?\nAnd a steady supply of F-16 to allow their airforce to take on a more active role in the fighting instead of how carefull they have to be today", ">\n\nNot help I MEAN HELL", ">\n\nAmnesty International has quietly left the chat.", ">\n\nFucking hell... Wtf is wrong in their heads over in Russia?\nUS, give Ukraine full range weapons capabilities to kick the Russians out once and for all" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know.", ">\n\nRussia will be ruined by the end of this. And I do not doubt that they will have no problem bringing down the rest of humanity with their pathetic asses", ">\n\nEvery Russia supporter must be tortured by Russians", ">\n\nYou know how it's said you shouldn't go after soldiers who were just following orders during wartime? Well, fuck that. I want every piece of shit Russian who willingly participated in this war to pay a very steep price.", ">\n\nI hate humans so much", ">\n\nWhere the heck is Light with his damn Death Note when you need him???", ">\n\nAnd there I was complaining about Dick Cheney & the APA..", ">\n\nchina uyghur genocide is happening too. A lot of good people dying everywhere.", ">\n\nRussia should have been obliterated after WW2. Let's hope that it's gone for good after this war.", ">\n\nCan we send heavy battletanks to Ukraine already?\nAnd a steady supply of F-16 to allow their airforce to take on a more active role in the fighting instead of how carefull they have to be today", ">\n\nNot help I MEAN HELL", ">\n\nAmnesty International has quietly left the chat.", ">\n\nFucking hell... Wtf is wrong in their heads over in Russia?\nUS, give Ukraine full range weapons capabilities to kick the Russians out once and for all", ">\n\nWhere can I sing up to help the Ukies beat this travesty? I am useless here in the USA. Free and without burden. \nMay as we’ll be of honorable use at least once!" ]

[ "“Her husband, a Ukrainian soldier, died defending Kherson’s Antonivskyi bridge on the first day of full-scale war, she said. During several interrogations in the spring, Russian forces submerged her hands in boiling water, pulled out her fingernails and beat her in the face with rifle butts so badly she needed plastic surgery, according to Minenko.”\nHoly fucking hell. I’m done reading the news today.", ">\n\nFuck me. This. This right here. This is why I want the money to go and stop this shit. It's all around the world. This shits unacceptable and God damnnnit its fucked up. Maybe I'm talking out of anger here but we should go over there like a wave and crush every single one of those bastards that fight back.", ">\n\nI often fantasize about being powerful enough to enforce world peace. Yes, I said enforce lol", ">\n\nAs a child I wanted to do this so bad. Be superman or something and go around the world dumping the meanies in some deserted island. Recently watched an episode of death note and thought that be easier.", ">\n\nHell yea, death note would be great", ">\n\nIn Death Note it seemed like the moral of the story was like \"Yeah, it would make the world better at first, but that power would corrupt the person who has it, and then we're all fucked.\"", ">\n\nThank you for this link, this was really interesting, and the Lincoln quote is profound, I’ve never heard that one before and I really like it!", ">\n\nI’ve heard that quote before but I had completely forgotten about it. Seeing it here gave me that same “woah” feeling lol.", ">\n\nThis is too evil.. They must be stopped", ">\n\nJust why?\nI don't get why. \nIt's clearly state sponsored because of how calculated it is, but they must know it's not going to get the free areas of Ukraine to surrender (because they don't want this happening to them and their families) but rather make them fight harder (to stop it). \nI just don't get what could possibly be in it for Russia. What do they gain?", ">\n\nIt's the same reason they've been kidnapping Ukrainian children and shipping them off to Russia, they're resorting to old Soviet era expansionist tactics to try and break the country. The torture is them sending a message that anyone even related to a soldier is considered fair game, and in part the extreme methods are used to make other think twice about staying. They want them to leave. Combine this with the child relocation, and it'll mean were Russia to win they'd be free to start exporting Russian nationalists to Ukraine to settle, essentially so that going forward it would have a more Russian friendly population and government.", ">\n\nI get that, but the willingness to engage in horrific depravity is what’s mind-boggling. It’s like they have no sense of empathy, morality or self-worth, at which point I wonder why they care about living in the first place.", ">\n\nBecause stuff like this happens in war, moreso when discipline is low, moreso when the only thing rewarded are results.\nWe're seeing this here in the west and reacting, but the average Russian doesn't get told, doesn't want to know, and has a remarkable capacity for saying \"It's a few bad apples\" when they do have to look at it.\nWith no intention to engage in whatabouism... We saw the same when torture was revealed in our own ranks. The majority of Americans refused to be informed. The rest had a range of opinions. Very few Americans were really disgusted and demanded it be stopped. Some pretended it wasn't that bad or that the victims deserved it. Some people gleefully screen printed the photos on T-Shirts.\nThese things happen when you give a bunch of 18 year olds guns and send them off to a foreign country with a us vs. them mentality. And people are usually very reluctant to call fouls on their own team. The more you let slip, the worse it gets.", ">\n\nIt’s way more than that. Russia has a long history of not valuing human life. So so many and the US is included but the degree to which they don’t care about their citizens is appalling.", ">\n\nI don’t think the average Russian falls under that statement. They also face imprisonment for criticizing their government. It is far more risky for them to protest.\nAre you actually aware of the torture allegations against Blackwater? The scope and breadth of what they have been alleged to do in our name? Again… most Americans don’t actually want to know. And if you tell them, they’re reluctant to believe it about their side.\nI don’t think it’s very useful to start making this an all Russian people thing. Hell, the government is telling new recruits that Poland has invaded Ukraine and they’re fighting the poles. Russia is as virtuous and noble to them as America is to us. They have their same share of patriots, idiots, and malcontents. Their shit upon minorities, and their insouciant oligarchs. Putin is a monster… but plenty of American pundits laud his leadership. The Russian people are just people doing their best with what they know like the rest of us.", ">\n\nThis article reads like a complete description of war crimes. This is terrible and I hope Russia pays for what it has done to the CITIZENS of Ukraine.", ">\n\nHave you ever seen the “Law Abiding Citizen” film? Not that it’s a particularly good one, but it has one very important quote:\n“It’s not a question of what you know or what you think you know, it’s about what you can prove in the court”.\nThe only actual, real proof of a war crime is documented orders to commit it, and/or reports of it being committed by the committing army (plus evidence that the offender was not punished for it). Everything else makes headlines, but is of no real consequences. Ever. In fact, even the documented orders can be disputed due to a HUGE number of loopholes, and that’s assuming you even get them somehow. Japan, for example, simply destroyed theirs in 1945.\nIn practice, only the losing side gets punished, and even then, not nearly every case, even if you exclude the accusations that were false to begin with.", ">\n\nAll the more reason to go full Mossad on them. Nowhere to ever hide. In a perfect world they'd all go to court. It's not a perfect world.", ">\n\nI have good news for you, those really guilty of something that bad (but not trialed for some reason) usually “disappear” after the war in order to make sure they won’t tell anyone. Unless they flee to another country and confess there, that is.\nThe really nasty stuff is always punished one way or another, karma is a bitch. Unless you are a scientist who stole documents about bioweapons, of course. Then you can trade those for your life.", ">\n\nYou must be describing the Japanese monsters who experimented on Chinese and Koreans during WW2", ">\n\nUnit 731. They experimented on everyone they could abduct actually, from all across the frontline. Their purpose was to find out how to make and counter bioweapons and infections in general (some say that their true purpose was not to invent methods to counter said pathogens, but to make neutralizing them as hard as possible). And their commander pretty much got the get-out-of-jail-free card in the end.\nDo not read up on this topic if you want to retain some faith in humanity. These guys make Mengele look like an amateur (which he actually was, because his experiments were not just inhumane, they were pointless - while other Nazi doctors at least tried to test radical treatments and stuff, and Unit 731 at least documented useful methods of fighting infections, Mengele was busy with stuff like \"can you change someone's eye color to blue so they look more Aryan\").", ">\n\nWe need a new Nuremberg trial for those bastards", ">\n\ngod knows what’s going to come to light in Mariupol", ">\n\nThe tragic thing is we may never know the full scale. Russians are rebuilding the city on top of all the death and agony that occurred and covering up whatever possible", ">\n\nNever forget the woman they raped, killed, then tied her child to her body with a mine as a booby trap.", ">\n\nOh my god. Where was this reported?", ">\n\nFew months back. I think it was a few months into the invasion. IIRC they saved the kid but he had been attached to his dead mom for awhile.", ">\n\nRemember that THIS is how Russians are going to treat any and all Ukrainians who end up on an occupied piece of land if concessions are given.\nWhen someone advocates for letting Putin keep Ukrainian territory he had occupied - they advocate for the continuation of THIS kind of genocide. They call not for peace - but for death and suffering.", ">\n\nAnyone who supports this invasion, supports this treatment of people. This is what they're advocating.", ">\n\nNot a terribly fitting username.", ">\n\n\nworldpeaceunity 3 hours, 6 minutes ago\nAll what Russians can do: torture, kill, and steal\n\nWhy was this removed? It's the absolute truth. They're a mafia state that only contents themselves with stealing from and tearing other people down rather than building themselves up. Too bad reveddit didn't catch which mod actually removed it, it'd be nice to know who the Quisling is.", ">\n\nYes, I can’t possibly imagine why they would remove a comment saying an entire ethnicity are all murderous thieves. It must be the work of a traitor.", ">\n\nRussian scumbangs deserve to go to hell.", ">\n\nRussia Devil's own country", ">\n\nfuck russia", ">\n\nThis is not an aberration or “a few bad apples.” This is what has happened and what will happen on every inch of land the Russian Army is not prevented from occupying. The sooner the people and governments of Western nations understand this, the better.", ">\n\nAbsolutely insane. We need more boycotts and sanctions not just against Russia, but also against all its allies and trade partners. It's time to punish the big ones, India and China, who are feeding the Russian war machine with money, parts and supplies.", ">\n\nDon’t forget Germany", ">\n\nGermany has been reducing its trade with Russia. Obviously it should do more but at least it's trying. India and China, on the other hand, aren't even trying.", ">\n\nWhen will they be sanctioned as a state sponsor of terror?\nIt's time to cut them off from the world economy completely.\nAlso, time to send the tanks to Ukraine.\nNo more waiting.", ">\n\nI wish the UN wouldn't release blanket statements like 'It has found instances of torture on both sides....'. That shit just encourages the idiots.\nWhile I don't doubt for a minute there has been cases of torture of russian POWS, it's not the systemic torture and rape of civilians of all ages and genders. \nI can imagine russian POWs getting a serious beating if they were captured in an area that it was known the russians had been brutalising the populations or if a AFU soldier had lost his friends to them, and I can imagine 'officers' getting waterboarded during interrogations. I can imagine many other things - but they're done for 'tactical' reasons, no matter how horrible they are - not for amusement or to terrorise the population. But the Ukrainians know that the continued support of the West relies on then appearing to lay be the rules and if a few graphic instances of torture hit the media support would evaporate. And if/when they win there's going to be lots of investigations and their getting into the EU etc will ride to those. The very fact that the russians won't allow anyone at all to see their POW camps is telling.\nAlso, there are just cultural differences. As we've seen and heard a huge portion of the russian public has been not only de-politicised, but have become moral/ethical zombies. The lack of empathy promoted by the regime for the last few decades has bred young men who joke with their mothers about how they enjoy torturing captives.", ">\n\nThere has been torture and execution of Russian soldiers but not by Ukrainians but by the Russian military who are executing them for shirking orders, if your a lucky conscript, you are sent to prison in Russia, if not you are tortured for a confession then publicly executed.\nIt’s so bad that the US Dept of Homeland Security and the US Border Patrol have publicly announced that there were more Refugees from Russia and Ukraine wanting to cross into the US in Yuma, Arizona than there were Mexicans", ">\n\nNuremberg it is then?", ">\n\nBarbaric cruelty is the only thing russians know.", ">\n\nRussia will be ruined by the end of this. And I do not doubt that they will have no problem bringing down the rest of humanity with their pathetic asses", ">\n\nEvery Russia supporter must be tortured by Russians", ">\n\nYou know how it's said you shouldn't go after soldiers who were just following orders during wartime? Well, fuck that. I want every piece of shit Russian who willingly participated in this war to pay a very steep price.", ">\n\nI hate humans so much", ">\n\nWhere the heck is Light with his damn Death Note when you need him???", ">\n\nAnd there I was complaining about Dick Cheney & the APA..", ">\n\nchina uyghur genocide is happening too. A lot of good people dying everywhere.", ">\n\nRussia should have been obliterated after WW2. Let's hope that it's gone for good after this war.", ">\n\nCan we send heavy battletanks to Ukraine already?\nAnd a steady supply of F-16 to allow their airforce to take on a more active role in the fighting instead of how carefull they have to be today", ">\n\nNot help I MEAN HELL", ">\n\nAmnesty International has quietly left the chat.", ">\n\nFucking hell... Wtf is wrong in their heads over in Russia?\nUS, give Ukraine full range weapons capabilities to kick the Russians out once and for all", ">\n\nWhere can I sing up to help the Ukies beat this travesty? I am useless here in the USA. Free and without burden. \nMay as we’ll be of honorable use at least once!", ">\n\nWell for ruzzia this is business as usual!! Noting new….. what do you want from a country that killed 40,000 Chechnyas children?! Remember Syria what they did to civilians and children there?? The only question is: what are we prepared to do about it….. We sure know what ruzzia is capable of!" ]

[]

[ "Okay, but this also doesn't even make sense. The way this is written, it reads as if MOHELA, the loan provider, was created by the state of Missouri to collect funding through loans to improve the state's higher education infrastructure through the Lewis and Clark Fund. \nA government created a private company to fund a fund, to fund the government, but then stopped paying into itself because...they forgot or stopped caring...and then when debt relief was announced, got upset because the forgiveness of loans would slow the revenue of...zero dollars into the fund..because the private company stopped funding the fund, but doesn't care because they weren't using it anyway.\nIs that what's being said? If so, that's fucking stupid." ]

[ "Okay, but this also doesn't even make sense. The way this is written, it reads as if MOHELA, the loan provider, was created by the state of Missouri to collect funding through loans to improve the state's higher education infrastructure through the Lewis and Clark Fund. \nA government created a private company to fund a fund, to fund the government, but then stopped paying into itself because...they forgot or stopped caring...and then when debt relief was announced, got upset because the forgiveness of loans would slow the revenue of...zero dollars into the fund..because the private company stopped funding the fund, but doesn't care because they weren't using it anyway.\nIs that what's being said? If so, that's fucking stupid.", ">\n\nIt makes a lot of sense, when you add criminally intent." ]

[ "Okay, but this also doesn't even make sense. The way this is written, it reads as if MOHELA, the loan provider, was created by the state of Missouri to collect funding through loans to improve the state's higher education infrastructure through the Lewis and Clark Fund. \nA government created a private company to fund a fund, to fund the government, but then stopped paying into itself because...they forgot or stopped caring...and then when debt relief was announced, got upset because the forgiveness of loans would slow the revenue of...zero dollars into the fund..because the private company stopped funding the fund, but doesn't care because they weren't using it anyway.\nIs that what's being said? If so, that's fucking stupid.", ">\n\nIt makes a lot of sense, when you add criminally intent.", ">\n\nIt is all okay when the wealthy do it...they just waiting on the next handout and they will get it at the cost to everyone in the nation excluding themselves. Yet trying to help the whole for the Greater good of our nation? Well according to them that is just us being selfish and evil...." ]

[ "Okay, but this also doesn't even make sense. The way this is written, it reads as if MOHELA, the loan provider, was created by the state of Missouri to collect funding through loans to improve the state's higher education infrastructure through the Lewis and Clark Fund. \nA government created a private company to fund a fund, to fund the government, but then stopped paying into itself because...they forgot or stopped caring...and then when debt relief was announced, got upset because the forgiveness of loans would slow the revenue of...zero dollars into the fund..because the private company stopped funding the fund, but doesn't care because they weren't using it anyway.\nIs that what's being said? If so, that's fucking stupid.", ">\n\nIt makes a lot of sense, when you add criminally intent.", ">\n\nIt is all okay when the wealthy do it...they just waiting on the next handout and they will get it at the cost to everyone in the nation excluding themselves. Yet trying to help the whole for the Greater good of our nation? Well according to them that is just us being selfish and evil....", ">\n\nOne of the problems Rome had was that the wealthy would stop paying taxes, and just wait for a general tax amnesty that would erase the debt." ]

[ "Okay, but this also doesn't even make sense. The way this is written, it reads as if MOHELA, the loan provider, was created by the state of Missouri to collect funding through loans to improve the state's higher education infrastructure through the Lewis and Clark Fund. \nA government created a private company to fund a fund, to fund the government, but then stopped paying into itself because...they forgot or stopped caring...and then when debt relief was announced, got upset because the forgiveness of loans would slow the revenue of...zero dollars into the fund..because the private company stopped funding the fund, but doesn't care because they weren't using it anyway.\nIs that what's being said? If so, that's fucking stupid.", ">\n\nIt makes a lot of sense, when you add criminally intent.", ">\n\nIt is all okay when the wealthy do it...they just waiting on the next handout and they will get it at the cost to everyone in the nation excluding themselves. Yet trying to help the whole for the Greater good of our nation? Well according to them that is just us being selfish and evil....", ">\n\nOne of the problems Rome had was that the wealthy would stop paying taxes, and just wait for a general tax amnesty that would erase the debt.", ">\n\n\n“… Student debt kind of gets recycled and flipped and passed around from entity to entity.”\n\nThis reminds me of the subprime mortgage crisis that burst the real estate bubble and helped cause the Great Recession." ]

[ "Okay, but this also doesn't even make sense. The way this is written, it reads as if MOHELA, the loan provider, was created by the state of Missouri to collect funding through loans to improve the state's higher education infrastructure through the Lewis and Clark Fund. \nA government created a private company to fund a fund, to fund the government, but then stopped paying into itself because...they forgot or stopped caring...and then when debt relief was announced, got upset because the forgiveness of loans would slow the revenue of...zero dollars into the fund..because the private company stopped funding the fund, but doesn't care because they weren't using it anyway.\nIs that what's being said? If so, that's fucking stupid.", ">\n\nIt makes a lot of sense, when you add criminally intent.", ">\n\nIt is all okay when the wealthy do it...they just waiting on the next handout and they will get it at the cost to everyone in the nation excluding themselves. Yet trying to help the whole for the Greater good of our nation? Well according to them that is just us being selfish and evil....", ">\n\nOne of the problems Rome had was that the wealthy would stop paying taxes, and just wait for a general tax amnesty that would erase the debt.", ">\n\n\n“… Student debt kind of gets recycled and flipped and passed around from entity to entity.”\n\nThis reminds me of the subprime mortgage crisis that burst the real estate bubble and helped cause the Great Recession.", ">\n\nI read this take a lot. That what will happen with student loans may not be on the same scale as 2008, but is happening w/ mechanics similar to 2008. I wonder. A lot of people hear “10%” and think this is a small part of the population but a good chunk those people have families that rely on them, and even younger siblings that see the true cost of college and decide to not go. It is significant" ]

[ "Okay, but this also doesn't even make sense. The way this is written, it reads as if MOHELA, the loan provider, was created by the state of Missouri to collect funding through loans to improve the state's higher education infrastructure through the Lewis and Clark Fund. \nA government created a private company to fund a fund, to fund the government, but then stopped paying into itself because...they forgot or stopped caring...and then when debt relief was announced, got upset because the forgiveness of loans would slow the revenue of...zero dollars into the fund..because the private company stopped funding the fund, but doesn't care because they weren't using it anyway.\nIs that what's being said? If so, that's fucking stupid.", ">\n\nIt makes a lot of sense, when you add criminally intent.", ">\n\nIt is all okay when the wealthy do it...they just waiting on the next handout and they will get it at the cost to everyone in the nation excluding themselves. Yet trying to help the whole for the Greater good of our nation? Well according to them that is just us being selfish and evil....", ">\n\nOne of the problems Rome had was that the wealthy would stop paying taxes, and just wait for a general tax amnesty that would erase the debt.", ">\n\n\n“… Student debt kind of gets recycled and flipped and passed around from entity to entity.”\n\nThis reminds me of the subprime mortgage crisis that burst the real estate bubble and helped cause the Great Recession.", ">\n\nI read this take a lot. That what will happen with student loans may not be on the same scale as 2008, but is happening w/ mechanics similar to 2008. I wonder. A lot of people hear “10%” and think this is a small part of the population but a good chunk those people have families that rely on them, and even younger siblings that see the true cost of college and decide to not go. It is significant", ">\n\nWait, my loans just transferred to MOHELA last year. Does this have an impact on me?" ]

[ "Okay, but this also doesn't even make sense. The way this is written, it reads as if MOHELA, the loan provider, was created by the state of Missouri to collect funding through loans to improve the state's higher education infrastructure through the Lewis and Clark Fund. \nA government created a private company to fund a fund, to fund the government, but then stopped paying into itself because...they forgot or stopped caring...and then when debt relief was announced, got upset because the forgiveness of loans would slow the revenue of...zero dollars into the fund..because the private company stopped funding the fund, but doesn't care because they weren't using it anyway.\nIs that what's being said? If so, that's fucking stupid.", ">\n\nIt makes a lot of sense, when you add criminally intent.", ">\n\nIt is all okay when the wealthy do it...they just waiting on the next handout and they will get it at the cost to everyone in the nation excluding themselves. Yet trying to help the whole for the Greater good of our nation? Well according to them that is just us being selfish and evil....", ">\n\nOne of the problems Rome had was that the wealthy would stop paying taxes, and just wait for a general tax amnesty that would erase the debt.", ">\n\n\n“… Student debt kind of gets recycled and flipped and passed around from entity to entity.”\n\nThis reminds me of the subprime mortgage crisis that burst the real estate bubble and helped cause the Great Recession.", ">\n\nI read this take a lot. That what will happen with student loans may not be on the same scale as 2008, but is happening w/ mechanics similar to 2008. I wonder. A lot of people hear “10%” and think this is a small part of the population but a good chunk those people have families that rely on them, and even younger siblings that see the true cost of college and decide to not go. It is significant", ">\n\nWait, my loans just transferred to MOHELA last year. Does this have an impact on me?", ">\n\nIt makes the legal argument stronger for throwing out the case that is currently preventing the Biden-Harris loan forgiveness. Just because the case doesn’t have standing doesn’t necessarily mean SCOTUS will throw it out. They have ignored lack of standing on other cases before but the defense didn’t have as strong of an argument against standing until they found this information.\nI don’t think it affects your repayment of loans to MOHELA but it just makes it more likely the defense against the lawsuit will be successful." ]

[ "Okay, but this also doesn't even make sense. The way this is written, it reads as if MOHELA, the loan provider, was created by the state of Missouri to collect funding through loans to improve the state's higher education infrastructure through the Lewis and Clark Fund. \nA government created a private company to fund a fund, to fund the government, but then stopped paying into itself because...they forgot or stopped caring...and then when debt relief was announced, got upset because the forgiveness of loans would slow the revenue of...zero dollars into the fund..because the private company stopped funding the fund, but doesn't care because they weren't using it anyway.\nIs that what's being said? If so, that's fucking stupid.", ">\n\nIt makes a lot of sense, when you add criminally intent.", ">\n\nIt is all okay when the wealthy do it...they just waiting on the next handout and they will get it at the cost to everyone in the nation excluding themselves. Yet trying to help the whole for the Greater good of our nation? Well according to them that is just us being selfish and evil....", ">\n\nOne of the problems Rome had was that the wealthy would stop paying taxes, and just wait for a general tax amnesty that would erase the debt.", ">\n\n\n“… Student debt kind of gets recycled and flipped and passed around from entity to entity.”\n\nThis reminds me of the subprime mortgage crisis that burst the real estate bubble and helped cause the Great Recession.", ">\n\nI read this take a lot. That what will happen with student loans may not be on the same scale as 2008, but is happening w/ mechanics similar to 2008. I wonder. A lot of people hear “10%” and think this is a small part of the population but a good chunk those people have families that rely on them, and even younger siblings that see the true cost of college and decide to not go. It is significant", ">\n\nWait, my loans just transferred to MOHELA last year. Does this have an impact on me?", ">\n\nIt makes the legal argument stronger for throwing out the case that is currently preventing the Biden-Harris loan forgiveness. Just because the case doesn’t have standing doesn’t necessarily mean SCOTUS will throw it out. They have ignored lack of standing on other cases before but the defense didn’t have as strong of an argument against standing until they found this information.\nI don’t think it affects your repayment of loans to MOHELA but it just makes it more likely the defense against the lawsuit will be successful.", ">\n\nRemember, “rules for thee, not for me.”" ]

[ "Okay, but this also doesn't even make sense. The way this is written, it reads as if MOHELA, the loan provider, was created by the state of Missouri to collect funding through loans to improve the state's higher education infrastructure through the Lewis and Clark Fund. \nA government created a private company to fund a fund, to fund the government, but then stopped paying into itself because...they forgot or stopped caring...and then when debt relief was announced, got upset because the forgiveness of loans would slow the revenue of...zero dollars into the fund..because the private company stopped funding the fund, but doesn't care because they weren't using it anyway.\nIs that what's being said? If so, that's fucking stupid.", ">\n\nIt makes a lot of sense, when you add criminally intent.", ">\n\nIt is all okay when the wealthy do it...they just waiting on the next handout and they will get it at the cost to everyone in the nation excluding themselves. Yet trying to help the whole for the Greater good of our nation? Well according to them that is just us being selfish and evil....", ">\n\nOne of the problems Rome had was that the wealthy would stop paying taxes, and just wait for a general tax amnesty that would erase the debt.", ">\n\n\n“… Student debt kind of gets recycled and flipped and passed around from entity to entity.”\n\nThis reminds me of the subprime mortgage crisis that burst the real estate bubble and helped cause the Great Recession.", ">\n\nI read this take a lot. That what will happen with student loans may not be on the same scale as 2008, but is happening w/ mechanics similar to 2008. I wonder. A lot of people hear “10%” and think this is a small part of the population but a good chunk those people have families that rely on them, and even younger siblings that see the true cost of college and decide to not go. It is significant", ">\n\nWait, my loans just transferred to MOHELA last year. Does this have an impact on me?", ">\n\nIt makes the legal argument stronger for throwing out the case that is currently preventing the Biden-Harris loan forgiveness. Just because the case doesn’t have standing doesn’t necessarily mean SCOTUS will throw it out. They have ignored lack of standing on other cases before but the defense didn’t have as strong of an argument against standing until they found this information.\nI don’t think it affects your repayment of loans to MOHELA but it just makes it more likely the defense against the lawsuit will be successful.", ">\n\nRemember, “rules for thee, not for me.”", ">\n\nSo to make sure I understand. Part of the lawsuit is to protect an organization that's legally considered separate from the state and did not ask to be included in the lawsuit and had no issues with the forgiveness. The claim being it would hurt that organizations ability to pay on a loan that hasn't been paid in a long time. In fact its been so long that kids born in that year the payments stopped are currently getting letters from colleges asking them to go there and those kids are now almost adults. This same debt that has been extended already and could be extended again. To reiterate the current payments being made are $0 to the state which has been going on for years, and even if Biden completely removed debt completely for students then mohela could continue to pay the same amount." ]

[ "Okay, but this also doesn't even make sense. The way this is written, it reads as if MOHELA, the loan provider, was created by the state of Missouri to collect funding through loans to improve the state's higher education infrastructure through the Lewis and Clark Fund. \nA government created a private company to fund a fund, to fund the government, but then stopped paying into itself because...they forgot or stopped caring...and then when debt relief was announced, got upset because the forgiveness of loans would slow the revenue of...zero dollars into the fund..because the private company stopped funding the fund, but doesn't care because they weren't using it anyway.\nIs that what's being said? If so, that's fucking stupid.", ">\n\nIt makes a lot of sense, when you add criminally intent.", ">\n\nIt is all okay when the wealthy do it...they just waiting on the next handout and they will get it at the cost to everyone in the nation excluding themselves. Yet trying to help the whole for the Greater good of our nation? Well according to them that is just us being selfish and evil....", ">\n\nOne of the problems Rome had was that the wealthy would stop paying taxes, and just wait for a general tax amnesty that would erase the debt.", ">\n\n\n“… Student debt kind of gets recycled and flipped and passed around from entity to entity.”\n\nThis reminds me of the subprime mortgage crisis that burst the real estate bubble and helped cause the Great Recession.", ">\n\nI read this take a lot. That what will happen with student loans may not be on the same scale as 2008, but is happening w/ mechanics similar to 2008. I wonder. A lot of people hear “10%” and think this is a small part of the population but a good chunk those people have families that rely on them, and even younger siblings that see the true cost of college and decide to not go. It is significant", ">\n\nWait, my loans just transferred to MOHELA last year. Does this have an impact on me?", ">\n\nIt makes the legal argument stronger for throwing out the case that is currently preventing the Biden-Harris loan forgiveness. Just because the case doesn’t have standing doesn’t necessarily mean SCOTUS will throw it out. They have ignored lack of standing on other cases before but the defense didn’t have as strong of an argument against standing until they found this information.\nI don’t think it affects your repayment of loans to MOHELA but it just makes it more likely the defense against the lawsuit will be successful.", ">\n\nRemember, “rules for thee, not for me.”", ">\n\nSo to make sure I understand. Part of the lawsuit is to protect an organization that's legally considered separate from the state and did not ask to be included in the lawsuit and had no issues with the forgiveness. The claim being it would hurt that organizations ability to pay on a loan that hasn't been paid in a long time. In fact its been so long that kids born in that year the payments stopped are currently getting letters from colleges asking them to go there and those kids are now almost adults. This same debt that has been extended already and could be extended again. To reiterate the current payments being made are $0 to the state which has been going on for years, and even if Biden completely removed debt completely for students then mohela could continue to pay the same amount.", ">\n\nMy loans were transferred to MOHELA months ago and it's been absolutely awful. Zero proactive communication from them. Zero human responses to my messages through their online platform. No proactive confirmation that prior records were received and processed. I'm halfway through PSLF and just waiting for the need to lawyer up/join a class action at some point." ]

[ "Okay, but this also doesn't even make sense. The way this is written, it reads as if MOHELA, the loan provider, was created by the state of Missouri to collect funding through loans to improve the state's higher education infrastructure through the Lewis and Clark Fund. \nA government created a private company to fund a fund, to fund the government, but then stopped paying into itself because...they forgot or stopped caring...and then when debt relief was announced, got upset because the forgiveness of loans would slow the revenue of...zero dollars into the fund..because the private company stopped funding the fund, but doesn't care because they weren't using it anyway.\nIs that what's being said? If so, that's fucking stupid.", ">\n\nIt makes a lot of sense, when you add criminally intent.", ">\n\nIt is all okay when the wealthy do it...they just waiting on the next handout and they will get it at the cost to everyone in the nation excluding themselves. Yet trying to help the whole for the Greater good of our nation? Well according to them that is just us being selfish and evil....", ">\n\nOne of the problems Rome had was that the wealthy would stop paying taxes, and just wait for a general tax amnesty that would erase the debt.", ">\n\n\n“… Student debt kind of gets recycled and flipped and passed around from entity to entity.”\n\nThis reminds me of the subprime mortgage crisis that burst the real estate bubble and helped cause the Great Recession.", ">\n\nI read this take a lot. That what will happen with student loans may not be on the same scale as 2008, but is happening w/ mechanics similar to 2008. I wonder. A lot of people hear “10%” and think this is a small part of the population but a good chunk those people have families that rely on them, and even younger siblings that see the true cost of college and decide to not go. It is significant", ">\n\nWait, my loans just transferred to MOHELA last year. Does this have an impact on me?", ">\n\nIt makes the legal argument stronger for throwing out the case that is currently preventing the Biden-Harris loan forgiveness. Just because the case doesn’t have standing doesn’t necessarily mean SCOTUS will throw it out. They have ignored lack of standing on other cases before but the defense didn’t have as strong of an argument against standing until they found this information.\nI don’t think it affects your repayment of loans to MOHELA but it just makes it more likely the defense against the lawsuit will be successful.", ">\n\nRemember, “rules for thee, not for me.”", ">\n\nSo to make sure I understand. Part of the lawsuit is to protect an organization that's legally considered separate from the state and did not ask to be included in the lawsuit and had no issues with the forgiveness. The claim being it would hurt that organizations ability to pay on a loan that hasn't been paid in a long time. In fact its been so long that kids born in that year the payments stopped are currently getting letters from colleges asking them to go there and those kids are now almost adults. This same debt that has been extended already and could be extended again. To reiterate the current payments being made are $0 to the state which has been going on for years, and even if Biden completely removed debt completely for students then mohela could continue to pay the same amount.", ">\n\nMy loans were transferred to MOHELA months ago and it's been absolutely awful. Zero proactive communication from them. Zero human responses to my messages through their online platform. No proactive confirmation that prior records were received and processed. I'm halfway through PSLF and just waiting for the need to lawyer up/join a class action at some point.", ">\n\nMine were transferred there last year. I sent in my PSLF paperwork in Oct 2021 when the waiver time was announced. I just got my letter last week saying they had been forgiven. The letters they were sending kept saying I had made 137 of the 120 payments but didn’t say they were forgiven. Months went by before the final letter. \nThey never responded to my messages online." ]

[ "Okay, but this also doesn't even make sense. The way this is written, it reads as if MOHELA, the loan provider, was created by the state of Missouri to collect funding through loans to improve the state's higher education infrastructure through the Lewis and Clark Fund. \nA government created a private company to fund a fund, to fund the government, but then stopped paying into itself because...they forgot or stopped caring...and then when debt relief was announced, got upset because the forgiveness of loans would slow the revenue of...zero dollars into the fund..because the private company stopped funding the fund, but doesn't care because they weren't using it anyway.\nIs that what's being said? If so, that's fucking stupid.", ">\n\nIt makes a lot of sense, when you add criminally intent.", ">\n\nIt is all okay when the wealthy do it...they just waiting on the next handout and they will get it at the cost to everyone in the nation excluding themselves. Yet trying to help the whole for the Greater good of our nation? Well according to them that is just us being selfish and evil....", ">\n\nOne of the problems Rome had was that the wealthy would stop paying taxes, and just wait for a general tax amnesty that would erase the debt.", ">\n\n\n“… Student debt kind of gets recycled and flipped and passed around from entity to entity.”\n\nThis reminds me of the subprime mortgage crisis that burst the real estate bubble and helped cause the Great Recession.", ">\n\nI read this take a lot. That what will happen with student loans may not be on the same scale as 2008, but is happening w/ mechanics similar to 2008. I wonder. A lot of people hear “10%” and think this is a small part of the population but a good chunk those people have families that rely on them, and even younger siblings that see the true cost of college and decide to not go. It is significant", ">\n\nWait, my loans just transferred to MOHELA last year. Does this have an impact on me?", ">\n\nIt makes the legal argument stronger for throwing out the case that is currently preventing the Biden-Harris loan forgiveness. Just because the case doesn’t have standing doesn’t necessarily mean SCOTUS will throw it out. They have ignored lack of standing on other cases before but the defense didn’t have as strong of an argument against standing until they found this information.\nI don’t think it affects your repayment of loans to MOHELA but it just makes it more likely the defense against the lawsuit will be successful.", ">\n\nRemember, “rules for thee, not for me.”", ">\n\nSo to make sure I understand. Part of the lawsuit is to protect an organization that's legally considered separate from the state and did not ask to be included in the lawsuit and had no issues with the forgiveness. The claim being it would hurt that organizations ability to pay on a loan that hasn't been paid in a long time. In fact its been so long that kids born in that year the payments stopped are currently getting letters from colleges asking them to go there and those kids are now almost adults. This same debt that has been extended already and could be extended again. To reiterate the current payments being made are $0 to the state which has been going on for years, and even if Biden completely removed debt completely for students then mohela could continue to pay the same amount.", ">\n\nMy loans were transferred to MOHELA months ago and it's been absolutely awful. Zero proactive communication from them. Zero human responses to my messages through their online platform. No proactive confirmation that prior records were received and processed. I'm halfway through PSLF and just waiting for the need to lawyer up/join a class action at some point.", ">\n\nMine were transferred there last year. I sent in my PSLF paperwork in Oct 2021 when the waiver time was announced. I just got my letter last week saying they had been forgiven. The letters they were sending kept saying I had made 137 of the 120 payments but didn’t say they were forgiven. Months went by before the final letter. \nThey never responded to my messages online.", ">\n\nCongratulations! Glad it worked out for you. I'll hold out some hope." ]