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innovation-hacking2

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shitposting_dataset2

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[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war.", ">\n\nSo basically, unrealistic expectations and more unnecessary death" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war.", ">\n\nSo basically, unrealistic expectations and more unnecessary death", ">\n\nRussia outlines THREE conditions for Peace, the third one will shock you!" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war.", ">\n\nSo basically, unrealistic expectations and more unnecessary death", ">\n\nRussia outlines THREE conditions for Peace, the third one will shock you!", ">\n\nHow do you say\"I wanna pony\" in Russian? Cause this is effectively the same thing." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war.", ">\n\nSo basically, unrealistic expectations and more unnecessary death", ">\n\nRussia outlines THREE conditions for Peace, the third one will shock you!", ">\n\nHow do you say\"I wanna pony\" in Russian? Cause this is effectively the same thing.", ">\n\nDoesn’t worth reading the article, as he likely asks for land he doesn’t own.." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war.", ">\n\nSo basically, unrealistic expectations and more unnecessary death", ">\n\nRussia outlines THREE conditions for Peace, the third one will shock you!", ">\n\nHow do you say\"I wanna pony\" in Russian? Cause this is effectively the same thing.", ">\n\nDoesn’t worth reading the article, as he likely asks for land he doesn’t own..", ">\n\nPeace, peace and peace." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war.", ">\n\nSo basically, unrealistic expectations and more unnecessary death", ">\n\nRussia outlines THREE conditions for Peace, the third one will shock you!", ">\n\nHow do you say\"I wanna pony\" in Russian? Cause this is effectively the same thing.", ">\n\nDoesn’t worth reading the article, as he likely asks for land he doesn’t own..", ">\n\nPeace, peace and peace.", ">\n\n\nimplementation of the UN Charter and restoration of Ukraine's territorial integrity and the WORLD ORDER \n\nis that a miss translation ?" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war.", ">\n\nSo basically, unrealistic expectations and more unnecessary death", ">\n\nRussia outlines THREE conditions for Peace, the third one will shock you!", ">\n\nHow do you say\"I wanna pony\" in Russian? Cause this is effectively the same thing.", ">\n\nDoesn’t worth reading the article, as he likely asks for land he doesn’t own..", ">\n\nPeace, peace and peace.", ">\n\n\nimplementation of the UN Charter and restoration of Ukraine's territorial integrity and the WORLD ORDER \n\nis that a miss translation ?", ">\n\nIt is obvious that ~~Kyiv~~ Putin is not ready for dialogue.\nFTFY" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war.", ">\n\nSo basically, unrealistic expectations and more unnecessary death", ">\n\nRussia outlines THREE conditions for Peace, the third one will shock you!", ">\n\nHow do you say\"I wanna pony\" in Russian? Cause this is effectively the same thing.", ">\n\nDoesn’t worth reading the article, as he likely asks for land he doesn’t own..", ">\n\nPeace, peace and peace.", ">\n\n\nimplementation of the UN Charter and restoration of Ukraine's territorial integrity and the WORLD ORDER \n\nis that a miss translation ?", ">\n\nIt is obvious that ~~Kyiv~~ Putin is not ready for dialogue.\nFTFY", ">\n\nWell then, let my reply to Minister Lavrov’s concerns about those three unacceptable conditions. \nFuck you. \nFuck you harder. \nAnd fuck you more." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war.", ">\n\nSo basically, unrealistic expectations and more unnecessary death", ">\n\nRussia outlines THREE conditions for Peace, the third one will shock you!", ">\n\nHow do you say\"I wanna pony\" in Russian? Cause this is effectively the same thing.", ">\n\nDoesn’t worth reading the article, as he likely asks for land he doesn’t own..", ">\n\nPeace, peace and peace.", ">\n\n\nimplementation of the UN Charter and restoration of Ukraine's territorial integrity and the WORLD ORDER \n\nis that a miss translation ?", ">\n\nIt is obvious that ~~Kyiv~~ Putin is not ready for dialogue.\nFTFY", ">\n\nWell then, let my reply to Minister Lavrov’s concerns about those three unacceptable conditions. \nFuck you. \nFuck you harder. \nAnd fuck you more.", ">\n\nUmm...then there will be no talks. Pretty simple." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war.", ">\n\nSo basically, unrealistic expectations and more unnecessary death", ">\n\nRussia outlines THREE conditions for Peace, the third one will shock you!", ">\n\nHow do you say\"I wanna pony\" in Russian? Cause this is effectively the same thing.", ">\n\nDoesn’t worth reading the article, as he likely asks for land he doesn’t own..", ">\n\nPeace, peace and peace.", ">\n\n\nimplementation of the UN Charter and restoration of Ukraine's territorial integrity and the WORLD ORDER \n\nis that a miss translation ?", ">\n\nIt is obvious that ~~Kyiv~~ Putin is not ready for dialogue.\nFTFY", ">\n\nWell then, let my reply to Minister Lavrov’s concerns about those three unacceptable conditions. \nFuck you. \nFuck you harder. \nAnd fuck you more.", ">\n\nUmm...then there will be no talks. Pretty simple.", ">\n\nSo never" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war.", ">\n\nSo basically, unrealistic expectations and more unnecessary death", ">\n\nRussia outlines THREE conditions for Peace, the third one will shock you!", ">\n\nHow do you say\"I wanna pony\" in Russian? Cause this is effectively the same thing.", ">\n\nDoesn’t worth reading the article, as he likely asks for land he doesn’t own..", ">\n\nPeace, peace and peace.", ">\n\n\nimplementation of the UN Charter and restoration of Ukraine's territorial integrity and the WORLD ORDER \n\nis that a miss translation ?", ">\n\nIt is obvious that ~~Kyiv~~ Putin is not ready for dialogue.\nFTFY", ">\n\nWell then, let my reply to Minister Lavrov’s concerns about those three unacceptable conditions. \nFuck you. \nFuck you harder. \nAnd fuck you more.", ">\n\nUmm...then there will be no talks. Pretty simple.", ">\n\nSo never", ">\n\nNumber one, Get out of Ukraine and All it's territories. Number two and three: see Number one!" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war.", ">\n\nSo basically, unrealistic expectations and more unnecessary death", ">\n\nRussia outlines THREE conditions for Peace, the third one will shock you!", ">\n\nHow do you say\"I wanna pony\" in Russian? Cause this is effectively the same thing.", ">\n\nDoesn’t worth reading the article, as he likely asks for land he doesn’t own..", ">\n\nPeace, peace and peace.", ">\n\n\nimplementation of the UN Charter and restoration of Ukraine's territorial integrity and the WORLD ORDER \n\nis that a miss translation ?", ">\n\nIt is obvious that ~~Kyiv~~ Putin is not ready for dialogue.\nFTFY", ">\n\nWell then, let my reply to Minister Lavrov’s concerns about those three unacceptable conditions. \nFuck you. \nFuck you harder. \nAnd fuck you more.", ">\n\nUmm...then there will be no talks. Pretty simple.", ">\n\nSo never", ">\n\nNumber one, Get out of Ukraine and All it's territories. Number two and three: see Number one!", ">\n\nStop using Newsweek as a source." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war.", ">\n\nSo basically, unrealistic expectations and more unnecessary death", ">\n\nRussia outlines THREE conditions for Peace, the third one will shock you!", ">\n\nHow do you say\"I wanna pony\" in Russian? Cause this is effectively the same thing.", ">\n\nDoesn’t worth reading the article, as he likely asks for land he doesn’t own..", ">\n\nPeace, peace and peace.", ">\n\n\nimplementation of the UN Charter and restoration of Ukraine's territorial integrity and the WORLD ORDER \n\nis that a miss translation ?", ">\n\nIt is obvious that ~~Kyiv~~ Putin is not ready for dialogue.\nFTFY", ">\n\nWell then, let my reply to Minister Lavrov’s concerns about those three unacceptable conditions. \nFuck you. \nFuck you harder. \nAnd fuck you more.", ">\n\nUmm...then there will be no talks. Pretty simple.", ">\n\nSo never", ">\n\nNumber one, Get out of Ukraine and All it's territories. Number two and three: see Number one!", ">\n\nStop using Newsweek as a source.", ">\n\nWhelp, I guess Russia will just continue to get its ass kicked. This war has severely weakened it’s standing in the world and it will take them well over 30 years to rebuild it’s military stockpiles. In essence, they have made their country a very likely target for the Chinese to just march in and take their territory. Total miscalculation on Putin’s part." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks.", ">\n\nThis is the world Russia and China want. Nuclear terrorism. How can any country without nuclear weapons actually defend themselves against a country with them? It's not like Ukraine can start taking Russian territory. \nRussia and China want to control the world through force.", ">\n\nRussia: \"Negotiate with us.\"\nUkraine: \"No. You're not going to negotiate in any kind of faith. You're just going to take everything off the table.\"\nR: \"Okay, here's our terms.\"\nU: \"Dude, we already said no. You don't want to negotiate, you want to dictate.\"\nR: \"Number one...\"", ">\n\nI do not blame him. No sane person would accept these conditions of their own free will. That's why these conditions should be forced on, not negotiated with, them.", ">\n\nI think you’re mistaken. A sane person would gladly accept the conditions of retreating from forcefully occupied territories", ">\n\nWhy ? Sane person would negotiate as good conditions as he can.", ">\n\nGoing to war based on bad Intel, losing soldiers in the tens of thousands then using missle attacks on civilian targets is not a sane person's actions. \nAll this now on the part of russia is saving face while sleeping on the dead bodies of soldiers and children.", ">\n\nI don't understand how is that related to negotiations. Russia bad, i get it, but why would trying to get as much as possible be insane ? That's just basic bargaining.", ">\n\nYes. People are dying but the negotiations are proceeding along nicely! Good job everyone!", ">\n\nLike in all wars ever ? I really don't understand what are you trying to tell me.", ">\n\nI know and I'm sorry for that. I really am.", ">\n\nimo it's time to take it to the next level and kick Russia out asap!", ">\n\nNo need to withdraw troops if you can just leave them to be slaughtered and pocket their pension.", ">\n\nThey'd have to admit it was a war they lost.", ">\n\nYeah...you only get to dictate terms from a position of strength guys.", ">\n\nRussians are blind to their government faults and follow the terrorist Putin. they get what they deserve", ">\n\nNothing Russia agrees to can be trusted. They have broken multiple agreements. So the answer must be for Russia to give up it's nuclear deterrent and demiliterize.", ">\n\nDo you think someone could hack in and detonate their nukes remotely? Same with China?", ">\n\nTime to give everyone nukes. We'd have world peace instantly.", ">\n\nI can't imagine this ending in any other way but a frozen conflict as there's no chance any of the parties can acaccomplish all of their goals.\nUnless a leadership change happens in Russia, but i cannot see Russians willing to get out of Ukraine on zelenskys terms either.", ">\n\nRussia won’t have a choice. Ukraine will not stop until there are no Russian troops left and all of their land has been liberated.", ">\n\nFair enough…then on it goes.", ">\n\nDaily reminder that Newsweek is trash and you shouldn’t click on their links", ">\n\nI’m curious about something. How much aid and equipment/weapons can we (US) provide Ukraine before Russia just considers us at war with them now (and by extension would that mean NATO?)? I don’t mean this in a “we should stop helping them” way, I completely believe we should, I’m just genuinely curious. Is “boots on the ground” the one and only singular condition? If we said “here’s 1000 of our best tanks, 2 aircraft carriers, 50 of the best fighter planes we have, and enough munitions to glass Jupiter” are we still “not in it”?", ">\n\nThat Pink Floyd song line “…anybody listening to me?….”", ">\n\nUnfortunately, lead member of Pink Floyd turned out to be a pro-russian vatnik.", ">\n\nThat’s right, it was very strange for him to do that. Why do you think he supports Russia against Ukraine?", ">\n\nI think it's the same reasoning that my dad seems to use. US is doing/supporting X, therefore, not X is the moral position.", ">\n\nThis is why I don’t buy reddits belief that Russia is getting their ass kicked and that life in Russia has gone to hell. Sure I want Ukraine to win but clearly Russia still thinks they have the upper hand in negotiations.", ">\n\nSo the Russian terrorists don’t like to talk on reasonable terms?\nTherefore they’ll need to be utterly defeated on the battlefield and driven out.", ">\n\nAs long as its not Putin and his cronies lives on the line they will continue this shit.", ">\n\nRussia is in for more pain then.", ">\n\nI see this list doesn't say Russia won't become a territory of Ukraine. Get fucked, Putin.", ">\n\nRussia, you are like a toothless old Grishnar cat, trying to frighten us with your roar.", ">\n\nRussia should cede territory to Ukraine in addition to ceasing any claim to Ukrainian territory Russia has previously attempted to annex or contest. This is the price of Russian aggression and murderous ways.", ">\n\nWith Lazrov's proclamation Russian leaders and their leader, Crazy Vladimir Putin have officially proclaimed they are all completely crazy! They are a slowly dying country and will continue the fight to gain land, commerce and most importantly citizens for their dictatorship to try and keep their country afloat.", ">\n\nRussia will just have to figure out it is time for a change.", ">\n\nFuck Russia in the fucking arse! The world fucking hates you. There I said it.", ">\n\nIt's funny they're saying they won't come to the table if it's something Ukraine wants because russia is the one constantly popping up and saying \"we're ready for peace talks (on our terms)!\" as if they're in a position to even bargain, much less demand anything.", ">\n\nZelensky should tell them he wants St Petersburg back, or he will keep spanking Russia on the world stage", ">\n\nJust persecute the war until the last hostile Ruzzian in Ukraine is either dead or running for the border….👍", ">\n\nAnd yet again when it comes to this conflict the image that comes to mind is the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, armless and legless, demanding the fight be declared a draw.", ">\n\nCould you imagine if the US pulled this same crap on Russia. Just force their way into the mainland, annexed it and demand Russia sign off on it.", ">\n\nY'know i always wondered how Russia became so huge (in regard to size) but now i don't wonder anymore, greedy bastards.", ">\n\nI hate every word ive heard from the russian government since crimea. Election stuff aside its pitiful and disgusting how theyre conquering and every official statement sounds like theyre the victim but theyre still trying to be reasonable. Give back crimea and get the fuck out.", ">\n\nI wonder if there has been an causal links established between excessive stretching of intestinal tissues to colorectal cancer. If so, Putin should consult a proctologist about having his head removed from his ass so as to not only lessen the chances of various cancers, but to cease being a geopolitical cancer.", ">\n\nThey keep talking about peace whilst launching hundreds of missiles onto civilian and infrastructure targets. These guys are totally detached from humanity and need to be isolated even further. Their biggest ego killer would be total destruction of their mi,Italy and economy.", ">\n\nRussia has already been given the terms, there should be no more discussions until they meet the prerequisites for peace. Everything they do otherwise is an indignity from a shameless people and not worth recognizing. \nSpend whatever it takes to end the regimes reach outside Russia.", ">\n\nWho do Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think even listen to their limp dick demands? In homage to Christmas Story, Zelensky is like Ralphie when he kicks the bully’s ass. Hows that bloody lip taste bullies? If only Ukraine could bomb the fuck outta the Kremlin maybe these 3 tough guys would really know war.", ">\n\nSo basically, unrealistic expectations and more unnecessary death", ">\n\nRussia outlines THREE conditions for Peace, the third one will shock you!", ">\n\nHow do you say\"I wanna pony\" in Russian? Cause this is effectively the same thing.", ">\n\nDoesn’t worth reading the article, as he likely asks for land he doesn’t own..", ">\n\nPeace, peace and peace.", ">\n\n\nimplementation of the UN Charter and restoration of Ukraine's territorial integrity and the WORLD ORDER \n\nis that a miss translation ?", ">\n\nIt is obvious that ~~Kyiv~~ Putin is not ready for dialogue.\nFTFY", ">\n\nWell then, let my reply to Minister Lavrov’s concerns about those three unacceptable conditions. \nFuck you. \nFuck you harder. \nAnd fuck you more.", ">\n\nUmm...then there will be no talks. Pretty simple.", ">\n\nSo never", ">\n\nNumber one, Get out of Ukraine and All it's territories. Number two and three: see Number one!", ">\n\nStop using Newsweek as a source.", ">\n\nWhelp, I guess Russia will just continue to get its ass kicked. This war has severely weakened it’s standing in the world and it will take them well over 30 years to rebuild it’s military stockpiles. In essence, they have made their country a very likely target for the Chinese to just march in and take their territory. Total miscalculation on Putin’s part.", ">\n\nFuck everything russia says…" ]

[]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans." ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much." ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)" ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?" ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy" ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant." ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things." ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things.", ">\n\nThat's not true, my girlfriend likes gross scents, I get her what I can handle smelling lol" ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things.", ">\n\nThat's not true, my girlfriend likes gross scents, I get her what I can handle smelling lol", ">\n\nMen give women the perfume she likes to wear because men tend to not know shit about scents. Women tend to give men a cologne she likes because men tend not to know shit about scents. If a guy already has a decent favorite cologne (not Axe) or at least can explain which types of scents he likes, she's probably going to buy him one of those. In the absence of direction she has to go with her own instincts." ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things.", ">\n\nThat's not true, my girlfriend likes gross scents, I get her what I can handle smelling lol", ">\n\nMen give women the perfume she likes to wear because men tend to not know shit about scents. Women tend to give men a cologne she likes because men tend not to know shit about scents. If a guy already has a decent favorite cologne (not Axe) or at least can explain which types of scents he likes, she's probably going to buy him one of those. In the absence of direction she has to go with her own instincts.", ">\n\nNo, my fiance isnt patient enough to go to a store and find a scent for me. I'm better at those types of things and she likes to have a variety of scents and I only want my consistent one." ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things.", ">\n\nThat's not true, my girlfriend likes gross scents, I get her what I can handle smelling lol", ">\n\nMen give women the perfume she likes to wear because men tend to not know shit about scents. Women tend to give men a cologne she likes because men tend not to know shit about scents. If a guy already has a decent favorite cologne (not Axe) or at least can explain which types of scents he likes, she's probably going to buy him one of those. In the absence of direction she has to go with her own instincts.", ">\n\nNo, my fiance isnt patient enough to go to a store and find a scent for me. I'm better at those types of things and she likes to have a variety of scents and I only want my consistent one.", ">\n\nI used to work in menswear and men's fragrance when I was in retail. First thing I learned that it's pronounced \"yope\", not joop, or jupe. Second, you never smell more than 3 fragrances in a row, breaking them up by smelling coffee beans in between. Third, always use scent cards as a sample. Never spray them on your skin or clothes. Do these things, and take a walk. Go through t shirt isles or sportswear. If you have a smell locked in your nose, go back to the counter and try that scent on your skin. Spray the underside of one wrist, rub it against the underside of the opposite wrist. Quick one pump spray on both sides of your neck. Nothing more! Cologne does not belong on clothes, it eats them! \nThen walk the entire store, or mall if you're in one, talk to people and interact. Feel how you smell, and if it makes you comfortable and confident, go back and buy the biggest bottle you can afford. Congratulations! That is your scent! There is a science to it, and it doesn't apply to anyone but you! \nIn essence, unless someone is intimate with you, they should rarely if ever smell your cologne. Detergent on your clothes/ fabric softener, maybe your soap or body wash... sure from 1 to 2 feet max away. But cologne, is meant to work with your body, to be experienced close. Respect that. \nIf you want to buy your significant other a fragrance, please take them through this process and then buy them whatever they want. \nSerious brownie points. Trust me." ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things.", ">\n\nThat's not true, my girlfriend likes gross scents, I get her what I can handle smelling lol", ">\n\nMen give women the perfume she likes to wear because men tend to not know shit about scents. Women tend to give men a cologne she likes because men tend not to know shit about scents. If a guy already has a decent favorite cologne (not Axe) or at least can explain which types of scents he likes, she's probably going to buy him one of those. In the absence of direction she has to go with her own instincts.", ">\n\nNo, my fiance isnt patient enough to go to a store and find a scent for me. I'm better at those types of things and she likes to have a variety of scents and I only want my consistent one.", ">\n\nI used to work in menswear and men's fragrance when I was in retail. First thing I learned that it's pronounced \"yope\", not joop, or jupe. Second, you never smell more than 3 fragrances in a row, breaking them up by smelling coffee beans in between. Third, always use scent cards as a sample. Never spray them on your skin or clothes. Do these things, and take a walk. Go through t shirt isles or sportswear. If you have a smell locked in your nose, go back to the counter and try that scent on your skin. Spray the underside of one wrist, rub it against the underside of the opposite wrist. Quick one pump spray on both sides of your neck. Nothing more! Cologne does not belong on clothes, it eats them! \nThen walk the entire store, or mall if you're in one, talk to people and interact. Feel how you smell, and if it makes you comfortable and confident, go back and buy the biggest bottle you can afford. Congratulations! That is your scent! There is a science to it, and it doesn't apply to anyone but you! \nIn essence, unless someone is intimate with you, they should rarely if ever smell your cologne. Detergent on your clothes/ fabric softener, maybe your soap or body wash... sure from 1 to 2 feet max away. But cologne, is meant to work with your body, to be experienced close. Respect that. \nIf you want to buy your significant other a fragrance, please take them through this process and then buy them whatever they want. \nSerious brownie points. Trust me.", ">\n\nI mean it’s not like us guys are the best judges of that topic, \nso probably best to just let the woman take the lead on it and enjoy the benefits" ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things.", ">\n\nThat's not true, my girlfriend likes gross scents, I get her what I can handle smelling lol", ">\n\nMen give women the perfume she likes to wear because men tend to not know shit about scents. Women tend to give men a cologne she likes because men tend not to know shit about scents. If a guy already has a decent favorite cologne (not Axe) or at least can explain which types of scents he likes, she's probably going to buy him one of those. In the absence of direction she has to go with her own instincts.", ">\n\nNo, my fiance isnt patient enough to go to a store and find a scent for me. I'm better at those types of things and she likes to have a variety of scents and I only want my consistent one.", ">\n\nI used to work in menswear and men's fragrance when I was in retail. First thing I learned that it's pronounced \"yope\", not joop, or jupe. Second, you never smell more than 3 fragrances in a row, breaking them up by smelling coffee beans in between. Third, always use scent cards as a sample. Never spray them on your skin or clothes. Do these things, and take a walk. Go through t shirt isles or sportswear. If you have a smell locked in your nose, go back to the counter and try that scent on your skin. Spray the underside of one wrist, rub it against the underside of the opposite wrist. Quick one pump spray on both sides of your neck. Nothing more! Cologne does not belong on clothes, it eats them! \nThen walk the entire store, or mall if you're in one, talk to people and interact. Feel how you smell, and if it makes you comfortable and confident, go back and buy the biggest bottle you can afford. Congratulations! That is your scent! There is a science to it, and it doesn't apply to anyone but you! \nIn essence, unless someone is intimate with you, they should rarely if ever smell your cologne. Detergent on your clothes/ fabric softener, maybe your soap or body wash... sure from 1 to 2 feet max away. But cologne, is meant to work with your body, to be experienced close. Respect that. \nIf you want to buy your significant other a fragrance, please take them through this process and then buy them whatever they want. \nSerious brownie points. Trust me.", ">\n\nI mean it’s not like us guys are the best judges of that topic, \nso probably best to just let the woman take the lead on it and enjoy the benefits", ">\n\nI don't like to wear or smell any perfumes/colognes. They trigger my asthma." ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things.", ">\n\nThat's not true, my girlfriend likes gross scents, I get her what I can handle smelling lol", ">\n\nMen give women the perfume she likes to wear because men tend to not know shit about scents. Women tend to give men a cologne she likes because men tend not to know shit about scents. If a guy already has a decent favorite cologne (not Axe) or at least can explain which types of scents he likes, she's probably going to buy him one of those. In the absence of direction she has to go with her own instincts.", ">\n\nNo, my fiance isnt patient enough to go to a store and find a scent for me. I'm better at those types of things and she likes to have a variety of scents and I only want my consistent one.", ">\n\nI used to work in menswear and men's fragrance when I was in retail. First thing I learned that it's pronounced \"yope\", not joop, or jupe. Second, you never smell more than 3 fragrances in a row, breaking them up by smelling coffee beans in between. Third, always use scent cards as a sample. Never spray them on your skin or clothes. Do these things, and take a walk. Go through t shirt isles or sportswear. If you have a smell locked in your nose, go back to the counter and try that scent on your skin. Spray the underside of one wrist, rub it against the underside of the opposite wrist. Quick one pump spray on both sides of your neck. Nothing more! Cologne does not belong on clothes, it eats them! \nThen walk the entire store, or mall if you're in one, talk to people and interact. Feel how you smell, and if it makes you comfortable and confident, go back and buy the biggest bottle you can afford. Congratulations! That is your scent! There is a science to it, and it doesn't apply to anyone but you! \nIn essence, unless someone is intimate with you, they should rarely if ever smell your cologne. Detergent on your clothes/ fabric softener, maybe your soap or body wash... sure from 1 to 2 feet max away. But cologne, is meant to work with your body, to be experienced close. Respect that. \nIf you want to buy your significant other a fragrance, please take them through this process and then buy them whatever they want. \nSerious brownie points. Trust me.", ">\n\nI mean it’s not like us guys are the best judges of that topic, \nso probably best to just let the woman take the lead on it and enjoy the benefits", ">\n\nI don't like to wear or smell any perfumes/colognes. They trigger my asthma.", ">\n\nThis is because of the extreme amount of equality between the genders since world history has begun." ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things.", ">\n\nThat's not true, my girlfriend likes gross scents, I get her what I can handle smelling lol", ">\n\nMen give women the perfume she likes to wear because men tend to not know shit about scents. Women tend to give men a cologne she likes because men tend not to know shit about scents. If a guy already has a decent favorite cologne (not Axe) or at least can explain which types of scents he likes, she's probably going to buy him one of those. In the absence of direction she has to go with her own instincts.", ">\n\nNo, my fiance isnt patient enough to go to a store and find a scent for me. I'm better at those types of things and she likes to have a variety of scents and I only want my consistent one.", ">\n\nI used to work in menswear and men's fragrance when I was in retail. First thing I learned that it's pronounced \"yope\", not joop, or jupe. Second, you never smell more than 3 fragrances in a row, breaking them up by smelling coffee beans in between. Third, always use scent cards as a sample. Never spray them on your skin or clothes. Do these things, and take a walk. Go through t shirt isles or sportswear. If you have a smell locked in your nose, go back to the counter and try that scent on your skin. Spray the underside of one wrist, rub it against the underside of the opposite wrist. Quick one pump spray on both sides of your neck. Nothing more! Cologne does not belong on clothes, it eats them! \nThen walk the entire store, or mall if you're in one, talk to people and interact. Feel how you smell, and if it makes you comfortable and confident, go back and buy the biggest bottle you can afford. Congratulations! That is your scent! There is a science to it, and it doesn't apply to anyone but you! \nIn essence, unless someone is intimate with you, they should rarely if ever smell your cologne. Detergent on your clothes/ fabric softener, maybe your soap or body wash... sure from 1 to 2 feet max away. But cologne, is meant to work with your body, to be experienced close. Respect that. \nIf you want to buy your significant other a fragrance, please take them through this process and then buy them whatever they want. \nSerious brownie points. Trust me.", ">\n\nI mean it’s not like us guys are the best judges of that topic, \nso probably best to just let the woman take the lead on it and enjoy the benefits", ">\n\nI don't like to wear or smell any perfumes/colognes. They trigger my asthma.", ">\n\nThis is because of the extreme amount of equality between the genders since world history has begun.", ">\n\nThis says a lot about society and I am not going to be the one to unpack it" ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things.", ">\n\nThat's not true, my girlfriend likes gross scents, I get her what I can handle smelling lol", ">\n\nMen give women the perfume she likes to wear because men tend to not know shit about scents. Women tend to give men a cologne she likes because men tend not to know shit about scents. If a guy already has a decent favorite cologne (not Axe) or at least can explain which types of scents he likes, she's probably going to buy him one of those. In the absence of direction she has to go with her own instincts.", ">\n\nNo, my fiance isnt patient enough to go to a store and find a scent for me. I'm better at those types of things and she likes to have a variety of scents and I only want my consistent one.", ">\n\nI used to work in menswear and men's fragrance when I was in retail. First thing I learned that it's pronounced \"yope\", not joop, or jupe. Second, you never smell more than 3 fragrances in a row, breaking them up by smelling coffee beans in between. Third, always use scent cards as a sample. Never spray them on your skin or clothes. Do these things, and take a walk. Go through t shirt isles or sportswear. If you have a smell locked in your nose, go back to the counter and try that scent on your skin. Spray the underside of one wrist, rub it against the underside of the opposite wrist. Quick one pump spray on both sides of your neck. Nothing more! Cologne does not belong on clothes, it eats them! \nThen walk the entire store, or mall if you're in one, talk to people and interact. Feel how you smell, and if it makes you comfortable and confident, go back and buy the biggest bottle you can afford. Congratulations! That is your scent! There is a science to it, and it doesn't apply to anyone but you! \nIn essence, unless someone is intimate with you, they should rarely if ever smell your cologne. Detergent on your clothes/ fabric softener, maybe your soap or body wash... sure from 1 to 2 feet max away. But cologne, is meant to work with your body, to be experienced close. Respect that. \nIf you want to buy your significant other a fragrance, please take them through this process and then buy them whatever they want. \nSerious brownie points. Trust me.", ">\n\nI mean it’s not like us guys are the best judges of that topic, \nso probably best to just let the woman take the lead on it and enjoy the benefits", ">\n\nI don't like to wear or smell any perfumes/colognes. They trigger my asthma.", ">\n\nThis is because of the extreme amount of equality between the genders since world history has begun.", ">\n\nThis says a lot about society and I am not going to be the one to unpack it", ">\n\nShe did, but I like it too." ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things.", ">\n\nThat's not true, my girlfriend likes gross scents, I get her what I can handle smelling lol", ">\n\nMen give women the perfume she likes to wear because men tend to not know shit about scents. Women tend to give men a cologne she likes because men tend not to know shit about scents. If a guy already has a decent favorite cologne (not Axe) or at least can explain which types of scents he likes, she's probably going to buy him one of those. In the absence of direction she has to go with her own instincts.", ">\n\nNo, my fiance isnt patient enough to go to a store and find a scent for me. I'm better at those types of things and she likes to have a variety of scents and I only want my consistent one.", ">\n\nI used to work in menswear and men's fragrance when I was in retail. First thing I learned that it's pronounced \"yope\", not joop, or jupe. Second, you never smell more than 3 fragrances in a row, breaking them up by smelling coffee beans in between. Third, always use scent cards as a sample. Never spray them on your skin or clothes. Do these things, and take a walk. Go through t shirt isles or sportswear. If you have a smell locked in your nose, go back to the counter and try that scent on your skin. Spray the underside of one wrist, rub it against the underside of the opposite wrist. Quick one pump spray on both sides of your neck. Nothing more! Cologne does not belong on clothes, it eats them! \nThen walk the entire store, or mall if you're in one, talk to people and interact. Feel how you smell, and if it makes you comfortable and confident, go back and buy the biggest bottle you can afford. Congratulations! That is your scent! There is a science to it, and it doesn't apply to anyone but you! \nIn essence, unless someone is intimate with you, they should rarely if ever smell your cologne. Detergent on your clothes/ fabric softener, maybe your soap or body wash... sure from 1 to 2 feet max away. But cologne, is meant to work with your body, to be experienced close. Respect that. \nIf you want to buy your significant other a fragrance, please take them through this process and then buy them whatever they want. \nSerious brownie points. Trust me.", ">\n\nI mean it’s not like us guys are the best judges of that topic, \nso probably best to just let the woman take the lead on it and enjoy the benefits", ">\n\nI don't like to wear or smell any perfumes/colognes. They trigger my asthma.", ">\n\nThis is because of the extreme amount of equality between the genders since world history has begun.", ">\n\nThis says a lot about society and I am not going to be the one to unpack it", ">\n\nShe did, but I like it too.", ">\n\nA cologne is just a cheaper more diluted Perfume. The content is literally the same except for the concentration. \nIf a woman likes a particular perfume, it makes no sense for her to gift her man a completely unrelated cologne if she's gifting it asper her taste and not what she thinks her man would like. \nMen and women have worn scents for like thousands of years, and they have never been gendered outside of recent EuroChristian culture. Please stop perpetuating the same." ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things.", ">\n\nThat's not true, my girlfriend likes gross scents, I get her what I can handle smelling lol", ">\n\nMen give women the perfume she likes to wear because men tend to not know shit about scents. Women tend to give men a cologne she likes because men tend not to know shit about scents. If a guy already has a decent favorite cologne (not Axe) or at least can explain which types of scents he likes, she's probably going to buy him one of those. In the absence of direction she has to go with her own instincts.", ">\n\nNo, my fiance isnt patient enough to go to a store and find a scent for me. I'm better at those types of things and she likes to have a variety of scents and I only want my consistent one.", ">\n\nI used to work in menswear and men's fragrance when I was in retail. First thing I learned that it's pronounced \"yope\", not joop, or jupe. Second, you never smell more than 3 fragrances in a row, breaking them up by smelling coffee beans in between. Third, always use scent cards as a sample. Never spray them on your skin or clothes. Do these things, and take a walk. Go through t shirt isles or sportswear. If you have a smell locked in your nose, go back to the counter and try that scent on your skin. Spray the underside of one wrist, rub it against the underside of the opposite wrist. Quick one pump spray on both sides of your neck. Nothing more! Cologne does not belong on clothes, it eats them! \nThen walk the entire store, or mall if you're in one, talk to people and interact. Feel how you smell, and if it makes you comfortable and confident, go back and buy the biggest bottle you can afford. Congratulations! That is your scent! There is a science to it, and it doesn't apply to anyone but you! \nIn essence, unless someone is intimate with you, they should rarely if ever smell your cologne. Detergent on your clothes/ fabric softener, maybe your soap or body wash... sure from 1 to 2 feet max away. But cologne, is meant to work with your body, to be experienced close. Respect that. \nIf you want to buy your significant other a fragrance, please take them through this process and then buy them whatever they want. \nSerious brownie points. Trust me.", ">\n\nI mean it’s not like us guys are the best judges of that topic, \nso probably best to just let the woman take the lead on it and enjoy the benefits", ">\n\nI don't like to wear or smell any perfumes/colognes. They trigger my asthma.", ">\n\nThis is because of the extreme amount of equality between the genders since world history has begun.", ">\n\nThis says a lot about society and I am not going to be the one to unpack it", ">\n\nShe did, but I like it too.", ">\n\nA cologne is just a cheaper more diluted Perfume. The content is literally the same except for the concentration. \nIf a woman likes a particular perfume, it makes no sense for her to gift her man a completely unrelated cologne if she's gifting it asper her taste and not what she thinks her man would like. \nMen and women have worn scents for like thousands of years, and they have never been gendered outside of recent EuroChristian culture. Please stop perpetuating the same.", ">\n\nHow does that change the fact that OP is correct?\nAlso, my $140 cologne wasn't too cheap." ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things.", ">\n\nThat's not true, my girlfriend likes gross scents, I get her what I can handle smelling lol", ">\n\nMen give women the perfume she likes to wear because men tend to not know shit about scents. Women tend to give men a cologne she likes because men tend not to know shit about scents. If a guy already has a decent favorite cologne (not Axe) or at least can explain which types of scents he likes, she's probably going to buy him one of those. In the absence of direction she has to go with her own instincts.", ">\n\nNo, my fiance isnt patient enough to go to a store and find a scent for me. I'm better at those types of things and she likes to have a variety of scents and I only want my consistent one.", ">\n\nI used to work in menswear and men's fragrance when I was in retail. First thing I learned that it's pronounced \"yope\", not joop, or jupe. Second, you never smell more than 3 fragrances in a row, breaking them up by smelling coffee beans in between. Third, always use scent cards as a sample. Never spray them on your skin or clothes. Do these things, and take a walk. Go through t shirt isles or sportswear. If you have a smell locked in your nose, go back to the counter and try that scent on your skin. Spray the underside of one wrist, rub it against the underside of the opposite wrist. Quick one pump spray on both sides of your neck. Nothing more! Cologne does not belong on clothes, it eats them! \nThen walk the entire store, or mall if you're in one, talk to people and interact. Feel how you smell, and if it makes you comfortable and confident, go back and buy the biggest bottle you can afford. Congratulations! That is your scent! There is a science to it, and it doesn't apply to anyone but you! \nIn essence, unless someone is intimate with you, they should rarely if ever smell your cologne. Detergent on your clothes/ fabric softener, maybe your soap or body wash... sure from 1 to 2 feet max away. But cologne, is meant to work with your body, to be experienced close. Respect that. \nIf you want to buy your significant other a fragrance, please take them through this process and then buy them whatever they want. \nSerious brownie points. Trust me.", ">\n\nI mean it’s not like us guys are the best judges of that topic, \nso probably best to just let the woman take the lead on it and enjoy the benefits", ">\n\nI don't like to wear or smell any perfumes/colognes. They trigger my asthma.", ">\n\nThis is because of the extreme amount of equality between the genders since world history has begun.", ">\n\nThis says a lot about society and I am not going to be the one to unpack it", ">\n\nShe did, but I like it too.", ">\n\nA cologne is just a cheaper more diluted Perfume. The content is literally the same except for the concentration. \nIf a woman likes a particular perfume, it makes no sense for her to gift her man a completely unrelated cologne if she's gifting it asper her taste and not what she thinks her man would like. \nMen and women have worn scents for like thousands of years, and they have never been gendered outside of recent EuroChristian culture. Please stop perpetuating the same.", ">\n\nHow does that change the fact that OP is correct?\nAlso, my $140 cologne wasn't too cheap.", ">\n\nThats cos it's a marketing tactic bro. Literally anything is artificially hyped when the base price is cheap af. Insulin is expensive just the same. Gucci will still sell plastic $5 crap for $5K doesn't make it some different thing.\nThe OP is still wrong because scent and cologne is just what the woman buys by her taste. If a man wants his taste, he can speak. This post is BS." ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things.", ">\n\nThat's not true, my girlfriend likes gross scents, I get her what I can handle smelling lol", ">\n\nMen give women the perfume she likes to wear because men tend to not know shit about scents. Women tend to give men a cologne she likes because men tend not to know shit about scents. If a guy already has a decent favorite cologne (not Axe) or at least can explain which types of scents he likes, she's probably going to buy him one of those. In the absence of direction she has to go with her own instincts.", ">\n\nNo, my fiance isnt patient enough to go to a store and find a scent for me. I'm better at those types of things and she likes to have a variety of scents and I only want my consistent one.", ">\n\nI used to work in menswear and men's fragrance when I was in retail. First thing I learned that it's pronounced \"yope\", not joop, or jupe. Second, you never smell more than 3 fragrances in a row, breaking them up by smelling coffee beans in between. Third, always use scent cards as a sample. Never spray them on your skin or clothes. Do these things, and take a walk. Go through t shirt isles or sportswear. If you have a smell locked in your nose, go back to the counter and try that scent on your skin. Spray the underside of one wrist, rub it against the underside of the opposite wrist. Quick one pump spray on both sides of your neck. Nothing more! Cologne does not belong on clothes, it eats them! \nThen walk the entire store, or mall if you're in one, talk to people and interact. Feel how you smell, and if it makes you comfortable and confident, go back and buy the biggest bottle you can afford. Congratulations! That is your scent! There is a science to it, and it doesn't apply to anyone but you! \nIn essence, unless someone is intimate with you, they should rarely if ever smell your cologne. Detergent on your clothes/ fabric softener, maybe your soap or body wash... sure from 1 to 2 feet max away. But cologne, is meant to work with your body, to be experienced close. Respect that. \nIf you want to buy your significant other a fragrance, please take them through this process and then buy them whatever they want. \nSerious brownie points. Trust me.", ">\n\nI mean it’s not like us guys are the best judges of that topic, \nso probably best to just let the woman take the lead on it and enjoy the benefits", ">\n\nI don't like to wear or smell any perfumes/colognes. They trigger my asthma.", ">\n\nThis is because of the extreme amount of equality between the genders since world history has begun.", ">\n\nThis says a lot about society and I am not going to be the one to unpack it", ">\n\nShe did, but I like it too.", ">\n\nA cologne is just a cheaper more diluted Perfume. The content is literally the same except for the concentration. \nIf a woman likes a particular perfume, it makes no sense for her to gift her man a completely unrelated cologne if she's gifting it asper her taste and not what she thinks her man would like. \nMen and women have worn scents for like thousands of years, and they have never been gendered outside of recent EuroChristian culture. Please stop perpetuating the same.", ">\n\nHow does that change the fact that OP is correct?\nAlso, my $140 cologne wasn't too cheap.", ">\n\nThats cos it's a marketing tactic bro. Literally anything is artificially hyped when the base price is cheap af. Insulin is expensive just the same. Gucci will still sell plastic $5 crap for $5K doesn't make it some different thing.\nThe OP is still wrong because scent and cologne is just what the woman buys by her taste. If a man wants his taste, he can speak. This post is BS.", ">\n\nthat sounds horrible" ]

[ "This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.", ">\n\nI mean if it makes me smell nice to people I like then I don't mind as long as it isn't too much.", ">\n\nI agree with the observation, but I’m not sure the sentiment isn’t being misunderstood. I think gifting him a fragrance she enjoys is kind of along the same line as gifting herself in sexy lingerie. She’s making him feel desired. \nBy making him smell like she wants him to, she’s giving the gift of her arousal. My husband loves it when I tell him he smells delicious. After he shaves he comes to kiss me and asks me to enjoy his smell (because he already knows I love it). Women can take it for granted that men are eager for her attention, but men don’t have the same security so by scenting her “territory” she’s telling him he’s valued. \n(Just my perspective based on my successful 30 year relationship)", ">\n\nCan I have more of your advice/tips from your relationship?", ">\n\nMy biggest advice for women is that society doesn’t understand that men are psychologically and sexually more complicated than anyone gives them credit for. The general thought being “Sex good, no sex bad.” And treat men who express anything beyond that as weak or weird or too sensitive and therefore effeminate, so men tend to just accept emotional neglect as normal and masculine. \nAs women we have to be willing to safely peel back the emotional callouses that have been created by years of being told their feelings are wrong. Men need to be complimented, tenderly touched, appreciated, told they are masculine (I know it sounds old fashioned but to be safely vulnerable they have to feel like they aren’t losing that part of themselves), they need “just because” gifts, and kisses on their foreheads, they need a partner who makes them feel desired. We have to be partners willing to ask for what we need without expecting mind reading or criticizing when they do it in their own way. We have to appreciate their strengths while offering grace for their shortcomings. In short, we have to stop treating men like “men” and start treating them like people.\nA man who feels truly loved and valued will move heaven and earth to make you happy", ">\n\nThank you for your reply🙏 I am an adult male, and I have no idea how my relationship with my girlfriend is supposed to look, to be honest. Even though we've broken up a few times due to the stress of taking things too fast, we are still together and in love. But I'm still young and feel like I don't have a lot of relationship wisdom? Especially for long term. Any advice for someone like me? I don't want to be naive or ignorant.", ">\n\n-Be direct, hinting isn’t telling. Passive aggressive behavior just escalates the problem. \n-Don’t assume your partner knows or understands anything you haven’t explicitly said. Don’t expect mind reading. \n-Feelings aren’t facts. Before arguing with your partner get in touch with your feelings and frame your thoughts in terms of your internal experience, not accusations. \nIMO Most arguments stem from one of those 3 things.", ">\n\nThat's not true, my girlfriend likes gross scents, I get her what I can handle smelling lol", ">\n\nMen give women the perfume she likes to wear because men tend to not know shit about scents. Women tend to give men a cologne she likes because men tend not to know shit about scents. If a guy already has a decent favorite cologne (not Axe) or at least can explain which types of scents he likes, she's probably going to buy him one of those. In the absence of direction she has to go with her own instincts.", ">\n\nNo, my fiance isnt patient enough to go to a store and find a scent for me. I'm better at those types of things and she likes to have a variety of scents and I only want my consistent one.", ">\n\nI used to work in menswear and men's fragrance when I was in retail. First thing I learned that it's pronounced \"yope\", not joop, or jupe. Second, you never smell more than 3 fragrances in a row, breaking them up by smelling coffee beans in between. Third, always use scent cards as a sample. Never spray them on your skin or clothes. Do these things, and take a walk. Go through t shirt isles or sportswear. If you have a smell locked in your nose, go back to the counter and try that scent on your skin. Spray the underside of one wrist, rub it against the underside of the opposite wrist. Quick one pump spray on both sides of your neck. Nothing more! Cologne does not belong on clothes, it eats them! \nThen walk the entire store, or mall if you're in one, talk to people and interact. Feel how you smell, and if it makes you comfortable and confident, go back and buy the biggest bottle you can afford. Congratulations! That is your scent! There is a science to it, and it doesn't apply to anyone but you! \nIn essence, unless someone is intimate with you, they should rarely if ever smell your cologne. Detergent on your clothes/ fabric softener, maybe your soap or body wash... sure from 1 to 2 feet max away. But cologne, is meant to work with your body, to be experienced close. Respect that. \nIf you want to buy your significant other a fragrance, please take them through this process and then buy them whatever they want. \nSerious brownie points. Trust me.", ">\n\nI mean it’s not like us guys are the best judges of that topic, \nso probably best to just let the woman take the lead on it and enjoy the benefits", ">\n\nI don't like to wear or smell any perfumes/colognes. They trigger my asthma.", ">\n\nThis is because of the extreme amount of equality between the genders since world history has begun.", ">\n\nThis says a lot about society and I am not going to be the one to unpack it", ">\n\nShe did, but I like it too.", ">\n\nA cologne is just a cheaper more diluted Perfume. The content is literally the same except for the concentration. \nIf a woman likes a particular perfume, it makes no sense for her to gift her man a completely unrelated cologne if she's gifting it asper her taste and not what she thinks her man would like. \nMen and women have worn scents for like thousands of years, and they have never been gendered outside of recent EuroChristian culture. Please stop perpetuating the same.", ">\n\nHow does that change the fact that OP is correct?\nAlso, my $140 cologne wasn't too cheap.", ">\n\nThats cos it's a marketing tactic bro. Literally anything is artificially hyped when the base price is cheap af. Insulin is expensive just the same. Gucci will still sell plastic $5 crap for $5K doesn't make it some different thing.\nThe OP is still wrong because scent and cologne is just what the woman buys by her taste. If a man wants his taste, he can speak. This post is BS.", ">\n\nthat sounds horrible", ">\n\nThe majority products like perfumes and colognes are bought by women based on what they like. I completely forget the percentage because the marketing class I learned that in was about 17 years ago but I am sure nothings changed since then." ]

[]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law." ]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law.", ">\n\n\nMaybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content\n\nThat's a delta to the guy you're responding to. Your position has changed." ]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law.", ">\n\n\nMaybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content\n\nThat's a delta to the guy you're responding to. Your position has changed.", ">\n\nI'm still asking for the outlawing of the current state of media." ]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law.", ">\n\n\nMaybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content\n\nThat's a delta to the guy you're responding to. Your position has changed.", ">\n\nI'm still asking for the outlawing of the current state of media.", ">\n\n\"making it illegal is too much\" or \"asking for the outlawing of the current state\"\nWhich is it? You can't have both" ]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law.", ">\n\n\nMaybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content\n\nThat's a delta to the guy you're responding to. Your position has changed.", ">\n\nI'm still asking for the outlawing of the current state of media.", ">\n\n\"making it illegal is too much\" or \"asking for the outlawing of the current state\"\nWhich is it? You can't have both", ">\n\nI still think it should be outlawed in it's current state." ]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law.", ">\n\n\nMaybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content\n\nThat's a delta to the guy you're responding to. Your position has changed.", ">\n\nI'm still asking for the outlawing of the current state of media.", ">\n\n\"making it illegal is too much\" or \"asking for the outlawing of the current state\"\nWhich is it? You can't have both", ">\n\nI still think it should be outlawed in it's current state.", ">\n\n\nAn AI can target a trending subject and create semi-relevant content for a company and submit hundreds of pieces of content\n\nI can imagine game developers loving that. \"I need 8 versions of a soda can to litter throughout the level\".\n\nAI will increase the volume of media that it is generating by crazy amounts.\n\nAren't there like 5 million YouTube videos uploaded every day?\n​\nI think what a lot of people are missing is that the AI isn't just sitting there generating millions of pieces of random art. Someone basically has to ask it to do something. I have seen the prompts used to create some art and writing a good one looks like a skill in and of itself." ]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law.", ">\n\n\nMaybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content\n\nThat's a delta to the guy you're responding to. Your position has changed.", ">\n\nI'm still asking for the outlawing of the current state of media.", ">\n\n\"making it illegal is too much\" or \"asking for the outlawing of the current state\"\nWhich is it? You can't have both", ">\n\nI still think it should be outlawed in it's current state.", ">\n\n\nAn AI can target a trending subject and create semi-relevant content for a company and submit hundreds of pieces of content\n\nI can imagine game developers loving that. \"I need 8 versions of a soda can to litter throughout the level\".\n\nAI will increase the volume of media that it is generating by crazy amounts.\n\nAren't there like 5 million YouTube videos uploaded every day?\n​\nI think what a lot of people are missing is that the AI isn't just sitting there generating millions of pieces of random art. Someone basically has to ask it to do something. I have seen the prompts used to create some art and writing a good one looks like a skill in and of itself.", ">\n\nI'm going to go in a slightly different direction than the other commenters. What would it look like to make it \"illegal\"? Do you really think making AI art is worth throwing somebody in jail over? If not criminal, then how high of a fine is appropriate? \nThere are also evidentiary issues. How would you define AI generation of an image? When you play a video game, a computer is using various assets to generate an image on the screen. How do you define AI-generated art in a way that doesn't eliminate that? What about tools in photoshop that use procedural algorithms to do things like smooth or diffuse an image? \nIf there are monetary damages under your proposed law, who would the money go to? What organization would need to prosecute the case? What court would it be heard in?\nPeople throw around the notion that this or that should be \"made illegal\" all the time. Actually making something illegal is a very difficult process. In this case, it seems nearly impossible." ]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law.", ">\n\n\nMaybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content\n\nThat's a delta to the guy you're responding to. Your position has changed.", ">\n\nI'm still asking for the outlawing of the current state of media.", ">\n\n\"making it illegal is too much\" or \"asking for the outlawing of the current state\"\nWhich is it? You can't have both", ">\n\nI still think it should be outlawed in it's current state.", ">\n\n\nAn AI can target a trending subject and create semi-relevant content for a company and submit hundreds of pieces of content\n\nI can imagine game developers loving that. \"I need 8 versions of a soda can to litter throughout the level\".\n\nAI will increase the volume of media that it is generating by crazy amounts.\n\nAren't there like 5 million YouTube videos uploaded every day?\n​\nI think what a lot of people are missing is that the AI isn't just sitting there generating millions of pieces of random art. Someone basically has to ask it to do something. I have seen the prompts used to create some art and writing a good one looks like a skill in and of itself.", ">\n\nI'm going to go in a slightly different direction than the other commenters. What would it look like to make it \"illegal\"? Do you really think making AI art is worth throwing somebody in jail over? If not criminal, then how high of a fine is appropriate? \nThere are also evidentiary issues. How would you define AI generation of an image? When you play a video game, a computer is using various assets to generate an image on the screen. How do you define AI-generated art in a way that doesn't eliminate that? What about tools in photoshop that use procedural algorithms to do things like smooth or diffuse an image? \nIf there are monetary damages under your proposed law, who would the money go to? What organization would need to prosecute the case? What court would it be heard in?\nPeople throw around the notion that this or that should be \"made illegal\" all the time. Actually making something illegal is a very difficult process. In this case, it seems nearly impossible.", ">\n\nCan you name anything else that is illegal for all of these reasons? We use AI for a lot of production.\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular? If it is inferior, then people won't buy or view the art. It will fade away and we wasted all that effort on making something illegal for differences of artistic opinion.\nThese seem like reasons not to consume AI media, not to take legal action." ]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law.", ">\n\n\nMaybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content\n\nThat's a delta to the guy you're responding to. Your position has changed.", ">\n\nI'm still asking for the outlawing of the current state of media.", ">\n\n\"making it illegal is too much\" or \"asking for the outlawing of the current state\"\nWhich is it? You can't have both", ">\n\nI still think it should be outlawed in it's current state.", ">\n\n\nAn AI can target a trending subject and create semi-relevant content for a company and submit hundreds of pieces of content\n\nI can imagine game developers loving that. \"I need 8 versions of a soda can to litter throughout the level\".\n\nAI will increase the volume of media that it is generating by crazy amounts.\n\nAren't there like 5 million YouTube videos uploaded every day?\n​\nI think what a lot of people are missing is that the AI isn't just sitting there generating millions of pieces of random art. Someone basically has to ask it to do something. I have seen the prompts used to create some art and writing a good one looks like a skill in and of itself.", ">\n\nI'm going to go in a slightly different direction than the other commenters. What would it look like to make it \"illegal\"? Do you really think making AI art is worth throwing somebody in jail over? If not criminal, then how high of a fine is appropriate? \nThere are also evidentiary issues. How would you define AI generation of an image? When you play a video game, a computer is using various assets to generate an image on the screen. How do you define AI-generated art in a way that doesn't eliminate that? What about tools in photoshop that use procedural algorithms to do things like smooth or diffuse an image? \nIf there are monetary damages under your proposed law, who would the money go to? What organization would need to prosecute the case? What court would it be heard in?\nPeople throw around the notion that this or that should be \"made illegal\" all the time. Actually making something illegal is a very difficult process. In this case, it seems nearly impossible.", ">\n\nCan you name anything else that is illegal for all of these reasons? We use AI for a lot of production.\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular? If it is inferior, then people won't buy or view the art. It will fade away and we wasted all that effort on making something illegal for differences of artistic opinion.\nThese seem like reasons not to consume AI media, not to take legal action.", ">\n\n\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular?\n\nThat's the problem. People want shit. So that's what we'll be fed." ]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law.", ">\n\n\nMaybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content\n\nThat's a delta to the guy you're responding to. Your position has changed.", ">\n\nI'm still asking for the outlawing of the current state of media.", ">\n\n\"making it illegal is too much\" or \"asking for the outlawing of the current state\"\nWhich is it? You can't have both", ">\n\nI still think it should be outlawed in it's current state.", ">\n\n\nAn AI can target a trending subject and create semi-relevant content for a company and submit hundreds of pieces of content\n\nI can imagine game developers loving that. \"I need 8 versions of a soda can to litter throughout the level\".\n\nAI will increase the volume of media that it is generating by crazy amounts.\n\nAren't there like 5 million YouTube videos uploaded every day?\n​\nI think what a lot of people are missing is that the AI isn't just sitting there generating millions of pieces of random art. Someone basically has to ask it to do something. I have seen the prompts used to create some art and writing a good one looks like a skill in and of itself.", ">\n\nI'm going to go in a slightly different direction than the other commenters. What would it look like to make it \"illegal\"? Do you really think making AI art is worth throwing somebody in jail over? If not criminal, then how high of a fine is appropriate? \nThere are also evidentiary issues. How would you define AI generation of an image? When you play a video game, a computer is using various assets to generate an image on the screen. How do you define AI-generated art in a way that doesn't eliminate that? What about tools in photoshop that use procedural algorithms to do things like smooth or diffuse an image? \nIf there are monetary damages under your proposed law, who would the money go to? What organization would need to prosecute the case? What court would it be heard in?\nPeople throw around the notion that this or that should be \"made illegal\" all the time. Actually making something illegal is a very difficult process. In this case, it seems nearly impossible.", ">\n\nCan you name anything else that is illegal for all of these reasons? We use AI for a lot of production.\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular? If it is inferior, then people won't buy or view the art. It will fade away and we wasted all that effort on making something illegal for differences of artistic opinion.\nThese seem like reasons not to consume AI media, not to take legal action.", ">\n\n\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular?\n\nThat's the problem. People want shit. So that's what we'll be fed.", ">\n\nAnd yet we don't make McDonald's or reality TV illegal. Nor is that necessarily possible.\nYou make all kinds of arguments why we shouldn't consume AI media, but no arguments as to why we can or should make it illegal.\nPeople aren't going to stop consuming shit because you make certain shit illegal, they'll just look for other shit. If you want to get people to appreciate certain art, making all the art they do appreciate illegal for that purpose is only going to make them want more shit and to want the shit you demand they consume less. All art is shit to someone." ]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law.", ">\n\n\nMaybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content\n\nThat's a delta to the guy you're responding to. Your position has changed.", ">\n\nI'm still asking for the outlawing of the current state of media.", ">\n\n\"making it illegal is too much\" or \"asking for the outlawing of the current state\"\nWhich is it? You can't have both", ">\n\nI still think it should be outlawed in it's current state.", ">\n\n\nAn AI can target a trending subject and create semi-relevant content for a company and submit hundreds of pieces of content\n\nI can imagine game developers loving that. \"I need 8 versions of a soda can to litter throughout the level\".\n\nAI will increase the volume of media that it is generating by crazy amounts.\n\nAren't there like 5 million YouTube videos uploaded every day?\n​\nI think what a lot of people are missing is that the AI isn't just sitting there generating millions of pieces of random art. Someone basically has to ask it to do something. I have seen the prompts used to create some art and writing a good one looks like a skill in and of itself.", ">\n\nI'm going to go in a slightly different direction than the other commenters. What would it look like to make it \"illegal\"? Do you really think making AI art is worth throwing somebody in jail over? If not criminal, then how high of a fine is appropriate? \nThere are also evidentiary issues. How would you define AI generation of an image? When you play a video game, a computer is using various assets to generate an image on the screen. How do you define AI-generated art in a way that doesn't eliminate that? What about tools in photoshop that use procedural algorithms to do things like smooth or diffuse an image? \nIf there are monetary damages under your proposed law, who would the money go to? What organization would need to prosecute the case? What court would it be heard in?\nPeople throw around the notion that this or that should be \"made illegal\" all the time. Actually making something illegal is a very difficult process. In this case, it seems nearly impossible.", ">\n\nCan you name anything else that is illegal for all of these reasons? We use AI for a lot of production.\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular? If it is inferior, then people won't buy or view the art. It will fade away and we wasted all that effort on making something illegal for differences of artistic opinion.\nThese seem like reasons not to consume AI media, not to take legal action.", ">\n\n\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular?\n\nThat's the problem. People want shit. So that's what we'll be fed.", ">\n\nAnd yet we don't make McDonald's or reality TV illegal. Nor is that necessarily possible.\nYou make all kinds of arguments why we shouldn't consume AI media, but no arguments as to why we can or should make it illegal.\nPeople aren't going to stop consuming shit because you make certain shit illegal, they'll just look for other shit. If you want to get people to appreciate certain art, making all the art they do appreciate illegal for that purpose is only going to make them want more shit and to want the shit you demand they consume less. All art is shit to someone.", ">\n\n\nAnd yet we don't make McDonald's or reality TV illegal. Nor is that necessarily possible.\n\nIt is different though. TLC is limited to it's timeslots and channel. AI generated media is not limited to platform or volume of content.\n\nYou make all kinds of arguments why we shouldn't consume AI media, but no arguments as to why we can or should make it illegal.\n\nI see your point. I'm arguing that it should be illegal for the same reasons we outlaw certain drugs. It's too good." ]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law.", ">\n\n\nMaybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content\n\nThat's a delta to the guy you're responding to. Your position has changed.", ">\n\nI'm still asking for the outlawing of the current state of media.", ">\n\n\"making it illegal is too much\" or \"asking for the outlawing of the current state\"\nWhich is it? You can't have both", ">\n\nI still think it should be outlawed in it's current state.", ">\n\n\nAn AI can target a trending subject and create semi-relevant content for a company and submit hundreds of pieces of content\n\nI can imagine game developers loving that. \"I need 8 versions of a soda can to litter throughout the level\".\n\nAI will increase the volume of media that it is generating by crazy amounts.\n\nAren't there like 5 million YouTube videos uploaded every day?\n​\nI think what a lot of people are missing is that the AI isn't just sitting there generating millions of pieces of random art. Someone basically has to ask it to do something. I have seen the prompts used to create some art and writing a good one looks like a skill in and of itself.", ">\n\nI'm going to go in a slightly different direction than the other commenters. What would it look like to make it \"illegal\"? Do you really think making AI art is worth throwing somebody in jail over? If not criminal, then how high of a fine is appropriate? \nThere are also evidentiary issues. How would you define AI generation of an image? When you play a video game, a computer is using various assets to generate an image on the screen. How do you define AI-generated art in a way that doesn't eliminate that? What about tools in photoshop that use procedural algorithms to do things like smooth or diffuse an image? \nIf there are monetary damages under your proposed law, who would the money go to? What organization would need to prosecute the case? What court would it be heard in?\nPeople throw around the notion that this or that should be \"made illegal\" all the time. Actually making something illegal is a very difficult process. In this case, it seems nearly impossible.", ">\n\nCan you name anything else that is illegal for all of these reasons? We use AI for a lot of production.\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular? If it is inferior, then people won't buy or view the art. It will fade away and we wasted all that effort on making something illegal for differences of artistic opinion.\nThese seem like reasons not to consume AI media, not to take legal action.", ">\n\n\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular?\n\nThat's the problem. People want shit. So that's what we'll be fed.", ">\n\nAnd yet we don't make McDonald's or reality TV illegal. Nor is that necessarily possible.\nYou make all kinds of arguments why we shouldn't consume AI media, but no arguments as to why we can or should make it illegal.\nPeople aren't going to stop consuming shit because you make certain shit illegal, they'll just look for other shit. If you want to get people to appreciate certain art, making all the art they do appreciate illegal for that purpose is only going to make them want more shit and to want the shit you demand they consume less. All art is shit to someone.", ">\n\n\nAnd yet we don't make McDonald's or reality TV illegal. Nor is that necessarily possible.\n\nIt is different though. TLC is limited to it's timeslots and channel. AI generated media is not limited to platform or volume of content.\n\nYou make all kinds of arguments why we shouldn't consume AI media, but no arguments as to why we can or should make it illegal.\n\nI see your point. I'm arguing that it should be illegal for the same reasons we outlaw certain drugs. It's too good.", ">\n\n\nIt is different though. TLC is limited to it's timeslots and channel. AI generated media is not limited to platform or volume of content.\n\nThey are both equally limited in that consumption of either is entirely option. I manage to live my life without watching TLC reality shows. I could also choose not to consume AI art.\n\nI see your point. I'm arguing that it should be illegal for the same reasons we outlaw certain drugs. It's too good.\n\nWe outlaw drugs because they cause demonstrable harm to society up to and including mass death. What evidence of demonstrable harm can you provide for AI art? Are people dying from consuming it? Has it been determined to be addictive in clinical studies?\nIf your justification for making it illegal is the same reason heroine is illegal, what evidence can you offer of that comparison?" ]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law.", ">\n\n\nMaybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content\n\nThat's a delta to the guy you're responding to. Your position has changed.", ">\n\nI'm still asking for the outlawing of the current state of media.", ">\n\n\"making it illegal is too much\" or \"asking for the outlawing of the current state\"\nWhich is it? You can't have both", ">\n\nI still think it should be outlawed in it's current state.", ">\n\n\nAn AI can target a trending subject and create semi-relevant content for a company and submit hundreds of pieces of content\n\nI can imagine game developers loving that. \"I need 8 versions of a soda can to litter throughout the level\".\n\nAI will increase the volume of media that it is generating by crazy amounts.\n\nAren't there like 5 million YouTube videos uploaded every day?\n​\nI think what a lot of people are missing is that the AI isn't just sitting there generating millions of pieces of random art. Someone basically has to ask it to do something. I have seen the prompts used to create some art and writing a good one looks like a skill in and of itself.", ">\n\nI'm going to go in a slightly different direction than the other commenters. What would it look like to make it \"illegal\"? Do you really think making AI art is worth throwing somebody in jail over? If not criminal, then how high of a fine is appropriate? \nThere are also evidentiary issues. How would you define AI generation of an image? When you play a video game, a computer is using various assets to generate an image on the screen. How do you define AI-generated art in a way that doesn't eliminate that? What about tools in photoshop that use procedural algorithms to do things like smooth or diffuse an image? \nIf there are monetary damages under your proposed law, who would the money go to? What organization would need to prosecute the case? What court would it be heard in?\nPeople throw around the notion that this or that should be \"made illegal\" all the time. Actually making something illegal is a very difficult process. In this case, it seems nearly impossible.", ">\n\nCan you name anything else that is illegal for all of these reasons? We use AI for a lot of production.\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular? If it is inferior, then people won't buy or view the art. It will fade away and we wasted all that effort on making something illegal for differences of artistic opinion.\nThese seem like reasons not to consume AI media, not to take legal action.", ">\n\n\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular?\n\nThat's the problem. People want shit. So that's what we'll be fed.", ">\n\nAnd yet we don't make McDonald's or reality TV illegal. Nor is that necessarily possible.\nYou make all kinds of arguments why we shouldn't consume AI media, but no arguments as to why we can or should make it illegal.\nPeople aren't going to stop consuming shit because you make certain shit illegal, they'll just look for other shit. If you want to get people to appreciate certain art, making all the art they do appreciate illegal for that purpose is only going to make them want more shit and to want the shit you demand they consume less. All art is shit to someone.", ">\n\n\nAnd yet we don't make McDonald's or reality TV illegal. Nor is that necessarily possible.\n\nIt is different though. TLC is limited to it's timeslots and channel. AI generated media is not limited to platform or volume of content.\n\nYou make all kinds of arguments why we shouldn't consume AI media, but no arguments as to why we can or should make it illegal.\n\nI see your point. I'm arguing that it should be illegal for the same reasons we outlaw certain drugs. It's too good.", ">\n\n\nIt is different though. TLC is limited to it's timeslots and channel. AI generated media is not limited to platform or volume of content.\n\nThey are both equally limited in that consumption of either is entirely option. I manage to live my life without watching TLC reality shows. I could also choose not to consume AI art.\n\nI see your point. I'm arguing that it should be illegal for the same reasons we outlaw certain drugs. It's too good.\n\nWe outlaw drugs because they cause demonstrable harm to society up to and including mass death. What evidence of demonstrable harm can you provide for AI art? Are people dying from consuming it? Has it been determined to be addictive in clinical studies?\nIf your justification for making it illegal is the same reason heroine is illegal, what evidence can you offer of that comparison?", ">\n\nSo I program for a living and as a hobby. Professionally I do nothing with AI but in my free time I've dabbled a bit into it. Say I make an AI in my free time that generates media based on a training set of royalty free art. What punishment should I face according to you? \nNow as for your arguments:\n\n1) It bloats an already competitive media space.\n\nSo you want to make it illegal because it's a genuine competitor? Isn't that the exact opposite of free market and capitalism?\n\n2) It decreases the value of surrounding media.\n\nBasically the same as the previous one, you want to make it illegal because it's a competitor.\n\n3) It creates a frustrating experience for consumers.\n\nAre you saying that people working with artists last year were not frustrated or that AI is more frustrating? Or are you just saying that AI is frustrating without comparing it to existing artists? \n\n4) It misunderstands the fundamental difference between popular quality work and inflammatory content.\n\nNo, it cannot possible misunderstand anything because it can't understand anything. There's no general artificial intelligence. These AIs simply mimic what they've been given without understanding anything. \n\n5) It cannot produce counter-popular media.\n\nYou want to make it illegal because it can't do something?" ]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law.", ">\n\n\nMaybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content\n\nThat's a delta to the guy you're responding to. Your position has changed.", ">\n\nI'm still asking for the outlawing of the current state of media.", ">\n\n\"making it illegal is too much\" or \"asking for the outlawing of the current state\"\nWhich is it? You can't have both", ">\n\nI still think it should be outlawed in it's current state.", ">\n\n\nAn AI can target a trending subject and create semi-relevant content for a company and submit hundreds of pieces of content\n\nI can imagine game developers loving that. \"I need 8 versions of a soda can to litter throughout the level\".\n\nAI will increase the volume of media that it is generating by crazy amounts.\n\nAren't there like 5 million YouTube videos uploaded every day?\n​\nI think what a lot of people are missing is that the AI isn't just sitting there generating millions of pieces of random art. Someone basically has to ask it to do something. I have seen the prompts used to create some art and writing a good one looks like a skill in and of itself.", ">\n\nI'm going to go in a slightly different direction than the other commenters. What would it look like to make it \"illegal\"? Do you really think making AI art is worth throwing somebody in jail over? If not criminal, then how high of a fine is appropriate? \nThere are also evidentiary issues. How would you define AI generation of an image? When you play a video game, a computer is using various assets to generate an image on the screen. How do you define AI-generated art in a way that doesn't eliminate that? What about tools in photoshop that use procedural algorithms to do things like smooth or diffuse an image? \nIf there are monetary damages under your proposed law, who would the money go to? What organization would need to prosecute the case? What court would it be heard in?\nPeople throw around the notion that this or that should be \"made illegal\" all the time. Actually making something illegal is a very difficult process. In this case, it seems nearly impossible.", ">\n\nCan you name anything else that is illegal for all of these reasons? We use AI for a lot of production.\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular? If it is inferior, then people won't buy or view the art. It will fade away and we wasted all that effort on making something illegal for differences of artistic opinion.\nThese seem like reasons not to consume AI media, not to take legal action.", ">\n\n\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular?\n\nThat's the problem. People want shit. So that's what we'll be fed.", ">\n\nAnd yet we don't make McDonald's or reality TV illegal. Nor is that necessarily possible.\nYou make all kinds of arguments why we shouldn't consume AI media, but no arguments as to why we can or should make it illegal.\nPeople aren't going to stop consuming shit because you make certain shit illegal, they'll just look for other shit. If you want to get people to appreciate certain art, making all the art they do appreciate illegal for that purpose is only going to make them want more shit and to want the shit you demand they consume less. All art is shit to someone.", ">\n\n\nAnd yet we don't make McDonald's or reality TV illegal. Nor is that necessarily possible.\n\nIt is different though. TLC is limited to it's timeslots and channel. AI generated media is not limited to platform or volume of content.\n\nYou make all kinds of arguments why we shouldn't consume AI media, but no arguments as to why we can or should make it illegal.\n\nI see your point. I'm arguing that it should be illegal for the same reasons we outlaw certain drugs. It's too good.", ">\n\n\nIt is different though. TLC is limited to it's timeslots and channel. AI generated media is not limited to platform or volume of content.\n\nThey are both equally limited in that consumption of either is entirely option. I manage to live my life without watching TLC reality shows. I could also choose not to consume AI art.\n\nI see your point. I'm arguing that it should be illegal for the same reasons we outlaw certain drugs. It's too good.\n\nWe outlaw drugs because they cause demonstrable harm to society up to and including mass death. What evidence of demonstrable harm can you provide for AI art? Are people dying from consuming it? Has it been determined to be addictive in clinical studies?\nIf your justification for making it illegal is the same reason heroine is illegal, what evidence can you offer of that comparison?", ">\n\nSo I program for a living and as a hobby. Professionally I do nothing with AI but in my free time I've dabbled a bit into it. Say I make an AI in my free time that generates media based on a training set of royalty free art. What punishment should I face according to you? \nNow as for your arguments:\n\n1) It bloats an already competitive media space.\n\nSo you want to make it illegal because it's a genuine competitor? Isn't that the exact opposite of free market and capitalism?\n\n2) It decreases the value of surrounding media.\n\nBasically the same as the previous one, you want to make it illegal because it's a competitor.\n\n3) It creates a frustrating experience for consumers.\n\nAre you saying that people working with artists last year were not frustrated or that AI is more frustrating? Or are you just saying that AI is frustrating without comparing it to existing artists? \n\n4) It misunderstands the fundamental difference between popular quality work and inflammatory content.\n\nNo, it cannot possible misunderstand anything because it can't understand anything. There's no general artificial intelligence. These AIs simply mimic what they've been given without understanding anything. \n\n5) It cannot produce counter-popular media.\n\nYou want to make it illegal because it can't do something?", ">\n\nI'm not drafting any laws here. Just trying to start some talk on a concerning topic. \n1) That's not competitive, it's drowning out by volume. 50 garbage articles will make the crafted accurate article invisible.\n2) False\n3) I'm saying that consumers will have an increasingly difficult time finding quality content.\n4) But what it is given is all existing media and the impressions that media has made, right? So it'll be able to see engagement time of users on inflammatory content and quality content and see that they are both successful and mimic both.\n5) It's a moral argument for why it should not be the main perpetuator of our media." ]

[ "Shoe factories are limited by materials and supply and demand. AI is only limited by bandwidth. A fairer comparison would be adding software to the mix for artists and writers and factories to cobblers. Yes software has enabled creators to create at a greater speed, they are still the creators. What I'm talking about is enabling separate entities to create on their own with a few guide lines. Factories are still guided by material experts and artists. This is no where near the same in comparison. I would argue that you have done actual artists an injustice in using AI generated media. Maybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content. Like what China has made law.", ">\n\n\nMaybe my remark about making it illegal was too much, but it should definitely be labeled and seperated from human made content\n\nThat's a delta to the guy you're responding to. Your position has changed.", ">\n\nI'm still asking for the outlawing of the current state of media.", ">\n\n\"making it illegal is too much\" or \"asking for the outlawing of the current state\"\nWhich is it? You can't have both", ">\n\nI still think it should be outlawed in it's current state.", ">\n\n\nAn AI can target a trending subject and create semi-relevant content for a company and submit hundreds of pieces of content\n\nI can imagine game developers loving that. \"I need 8 versions of a soda can to litter throughout the level\".\n\nAI will increase the volume of media that it is generating by crazy amounts.\n\nAren't there like 5 million YouTube videos uploaded every day?\n​\nI think what a lot of people are missing is that the AI isn't just sitting there generating millions of pieces of random art. Someone basically has to ask it to do something. I have seen the prompts used to create some art and writing a good one looks like a skill in and of itself.", ">\n\nI'm going to go in a slightly different direction than the other commenters. What would it look like to make it \"illegal\"? Do you really think making AI art is worth throwing somebody in jail over? If not criminal, then how high of a fine is appropriate? \nThere are also evidentiary issues. How would you define AI generation of an image? When you play a video game, a computer is using various assets to generate an image on the screen. How do you define AI-generated art in a way that doesn't eliminate that? What about tools in photoshop that use procedural algorithms to do things like smooth or diffuse an image? \nIf there are monetary damages under your proposed law, who would the money go to? What organization would need to prosecute the case? What court would it be heard in?\nPeople throw around the notion that this or that should be \"made illegal\" all the time. Actually making something illegal is a very difficult process. In this case, it seems nearly impossible.", ">\n\nCan you name anything else that is illegal for all of these reasons? We use AI for a lot of production.\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular? If it is inferior, then people won't buy or view the art. It will fade away and we wasted all that effort on making something illegal for differences of artistic opinion.\nThese seem like reasons not to consume AI media, not to take legal action.", ">\n\n\nWhy isn't it sufficient for people to decide with their media consumption what is popular?\n\nThat's the problem. People want shit. So that's what we'll be fed.", ">\n\nAnd yet we don't make McDonald's or reality TV illegal. Nor is that necessarily possible.\nYou make all kinds of arguments why we shouldn't consume AI media, but no arguments as to why we can or should make it illegal.\nPeople aren't going to stop consuming shit because you make certain shit illegal, they'll just look for other shit. If you want to get people to appreciate certain art, making all the art they do appreciate illegal for that purpose is only going to make them want more shit and to want the shit you demand they consume less. All art is shit to someone.", ">\n\n\nAnd yet we don't make McDonald's or reality TV illegal. Nor is that necessarily possible.\n\nIt is different though. TLC is limited to it's timeslots and channel. AI generated media is not limited to platform or volume of content.\n\nYou make all kinds of arguments why we shouldn't consume AI media, but no arguments as to why we can or should make it illegal.\n\nI see your point. I'm arguing that it should be illegal for the same reasons we outlaw certain drugs. It's too good.", ">\n\n\nIt is different though. TLC is limited to it's timeslots and channel. AI generated media is not limited to platform or volume of content.\n\nThey are both equally limited in that consumption of either is entirely option. I manage to live my life without watching TLC reality shows. I could also choose not to consume AI art.\n\nI see your point. I'm arguing that it should be illegal for the same reasons we outlaw certain drugs. It's too good.\n\nWe outlaw drugs because they cause demonstrable harm to society up to and including mass death. What evidence of demonstrable harm can you provide for AI art? Are people dying from consuming it? Has it been determined to be addictive in clinical studies?\nIf your justification for making it illegal is the same reason heroine is illegal, what evidence can you offer of that comparison?", ">\n\nSo I program for a living and as a hobby. Professionally I do nothing with AI but in my free time I've dabbled a bit into it. Say I make an AI in my free time that generates media based on a training set of royalty free art. What punishment should I face according to you? \nNow as for your arguments:\n\n1) It bloats an already competitive media space.\n\nSo you want to make it illegal because it's a genuine competitor? Isn't that the exact opposite of free market and capitalism?\n\n2) It decreases the value of surrounding media.\n\nBasically the same as the previous one, you want to make it illegal because it's a competitor.\n\n3) It creates a frustrating experience for consumers.\n\nAre you saying that people working with artists last year were not frustrated or that AI is more frustrating? Or are you just saying that AI is frustrating without comparing it to existing artists? \n\n4) It misunderstands the fundamental difference between popular quality work and inflammatory content.\n\nNo, it cannot possible misunderstand anything because it can't understand anything. There's no general artificial intelligence. These AIs simply mimic what they've been given without understanding anything. \n\n5) It cannot produce counter-popular media.\n\nYou want to make it illegal because it can't do something?", ">\n\nI'm not drafting any laws here. Just trying to start some talk on a concerning topic. \n1) That's not competitive, it's drowning out by volume. 50 garbage articles will make the crafted accurate article invisible.\n2) False\n3) I'm saying that consumers will have an increasingly difficult time finding quality content.\n4) But what it is given is all existing media and the impressions that media has made, right? So it'll be able to see engagement time of users on inflammatory content and quality content and see that they are both successful and mimic both.\n5) It's a moral argument for why it should not be the main perpetuator of our media.", ">\n\n\nI'm not drafting any laws here\n\nYou're suggesting that something be made illegal, so suggest an appropriate punishment. The potential punishment is a key part of a new law so it should be a key part of your suggestion.\n\nit's drowning out by volume\n\nLike that's something new, people post garbage tiktoks every day, should that be illegal too just because they're garbage?\n\nI'm saying that consumers will have an increasingly difficult time finding quality content.\n\nAgain, free market and that's nothing new.\n\nBut what it is given is all existing media and the impressions that media has made, right?\n\nAs far as I'm aware, just a subset of some existing media. It's impossible to train an AI on all existing media. Impressions could have been added but I doubt it. I think the quality selection was done in the creation of the training set and not via meta data but I could be wrong in that.\n\nSo it'll be able to see engagement time of users on inflammatory content and quality content and see that they are both successful and mimic both\n\nWhat you said is possible yes. The Youtube algorithm is doing exactly this at this very moment in time. Should youtube be brought before a judge for their algorithm? (Which is an AI btw, it just isn't creating images)\n\nit should not be the main perpetuator of our media\n\nIt isn't and it never will be" ]