Datasets:

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innovation-hacking2

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shitposting_dataset2

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[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace." ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress" ]

[ "It's because of shit monkeys like this that the world can't have nice things. You know, nice things, like PEACE!!!", ">\n\nAll the money and time waisted on these stupid fights between people, while our planet is getting fucked, finite resources are depleting,...", ">\n\n\"The removal of troops from Ukraine is an unacceptable condition of peace.\"\nAnd that is how you know Russia has no plans for peace, when peace itself is labeled as an unacceptable condition of peace.", ">\n\nRussia: War IS peace. Weakness IS strength.", ">\n\n4+4=5!", ">\n\n3+3=3!", ">\n\n/r/unexpectedfactorial", ">\n\nNo that's the correct one 3+3=6 3!=6 therefore 3+3=3!", ">\n\nI didn't say it was wrong, I said it was unexpected.", ">\n\n\n\"Putting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\"\n\nYes, withdrawal from the UKRAINIAN territories you are illegally occupying should be step one for peace.", ">\n\nEvery negotiation involves both sides giving up something they don't want to. What exactly is left for Russia in this framework?\nEdit for downvoters (I think?): What is left for Russia to give up? Because they're indicating all of their gains inviolate.", ">\n\nSo in your mind, if a thief breaks into your home and gets caught, the criminal gets to negotiate to keep some of the things he has stolen? \nYou can fuck right off with that way of thinking. Russia are illegal occupier war criminals. They deserve none of their ill-gotten gains.", ">\n\nYou have misread what I wrote, which was in context of the article stating what Russia said. Nevertheless, I have edited for clarity.", ">\n\nI'm still not sure I understand your question?\nOf course, what they want Russia to give up is all the land they have illgally occupied. Return Ukraine to the 1991 borders.", ">\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. What exactly would their bargaining chip be in peace negotiations? Because their statement at face is essentially \"we keep all we have and maybe we stop bombing you, depending on how talks go\". That is a threat, not a negotiation.", ">\n\n\nAssume what Russia is saying in the article is offered in good faith. \n\nNo.", ">\n\nOK, then why are you here? Russia bad, I agree, but there's nothing to discuss relevant to this article in that regard.", ">\n\nIt's very simple:\nRussia gets the hell out of Ukraine, and returns Ukraine's borders to where they were in 1991. That's step 1 for any peace talks.\nNext, all Russian assets seized abroad will be given to the Ukrainian government for Ukraine to rebuild, and there is nothing Russia can say or do about it. That's step 2.\nStep 3, which is the hardest and unfortunately least likely to happen, is all the Russians guilty of war crimes stand trial in international court.\nIt's not rocket surgery. Russia doesn't get to negotiate. They have the terms dictacted TO them, not the other way around. That's what happens when you are losing.\nEDIT: Responding to the coward below who responded then instantly blocked me:\nIf Russia doesn't agree, then the war continues. Under no circumstances should Russia be allowed to keep any of Ukraine's land. If they are, all that does is create positive feedback and encourages them to do this again.\nRussia needs to learn, with no uncertainty, that all they managed to accomplish was getting 100k of their men killed, wrecked the economy, strengthened NATO, and turned most of the world against them.... All for nothing.\nRussia has zero leverage. They are losing, and will continue to lose. They can either lose Ukraine and another 100k of their men and countless vehicles, ammunitions, etc while their economy suffers, or they can cut their losses and end it now.", ">\n\nYou know Russia will never agree to this, right? Are you talking about the most ideal outcome for Ukraine or are you actually interested in peace short term?", ">\n\nRussia rejected peace talks. \nNow we can ignore their lies that Ukriane is refusing peace.", ">\n\nOr we could do the sensible thing and ignore all the Russian lies without waiting for anything, which means everything they say.", ">\n\nNo, its important to actively refute disinformation.", ">\n\nWhenever there is talk about a peace plan, I wish the first words out of Zelensky's mouth would be, \"We are a sovereign nation and ten months ago Russia INVADED us and is now targeting and killing innocent civilians. There is zero justification for their aggression. The only peace plan is to leave, give us back our people and pay to repair the damages.\" I hate the fact that some people even entertain any sort of appeasement towards Russia. This whole mess makes me sick in my stomach, but it could get worse if Russia profits from this somehow.", ">\n\nPeople are just scared of nukes that Russia will never fire.", ">\n\nLavrov isn't offering a peace plan, it's asking Ukraine to retreat from areas already re conquered by Ukraine from the invaders.\nMaybe someone should explain to him how War Balance works...", ">\n\nRussia's lies make much a lot more sense if you consider the only audience they're ever talking to is their own people. \nEven though it's complete nonsense, they have to make it look like they're the ones calling the shots and the war has strengthened their position, not weakened it.", ">\n\nBut it's still kicking the ball down the road by like... Months, at best. If they're going to talk tough to the domestic audience they better be pretty confident Ukraine isn't going to keep putting up enough fight to slowly take its territory back.\nI guess if they were smart though they would've recognized the shit they were in back in March, declared Ukraine free of Nazis and fucked off back to Russia. The world probably would've let them keep Crimea at that point, honestly. Not formally but the way it's been the last 8 years.", ">\n\nYou cannot trust Russia. I repeat, you cannot trust Russia.", ">\n\nI guess the only way to end this war then is for Ukraine to annex Russian territory and then graciously give it back as a peace offering.", ">\n\nNot even a joke. The only way to win this war is to invade Russia, IMO.", ">\n\nThat will be the end of the world. MAD kind of sort of works", ">\n\nIf Ukraine invades Russia? Why?", ">\n\nRussia hasn’t used nukes because we haven’t used nukes, and vice versa. But if Russia is invaded and now has to go on the defensive, that might change.", ">\n\nSo if Ukraine had nukes it would be fair for them to use them on Russia now? \nI'm not talking about a US invasion, but Ukraine attacking Russian territory.", ">\n\nThe reason Ukraine has no nukes is because they signed them over to Russia in 1993 in exchange for security. It’s a moot point because Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine if they had nukes. Again, MAD", ">\n\n\"Here are the three places I will not allow Scarlett Johansson to take me on a date.\"", ">\n\nSo they'll just accept more dead soldiers. Good idea.", ">\n\nRussia will never care about dead soldiers. They just see it as an annoyance because it's bad publicity.", ">\n\nTo a degree they'll consider it a good thing, since they're using it as an excuse to remove 'undesirables' from their population. Clearing out prisons and minorites and politically problematic people from their population. A lot of the people who would have the inclination and the resources to resist the regime used those resources to get the fuck out, and the ultra nationalist types who are counterintuitively the next largest internal threat are being fed into the meat grinder to their own cheers.\nIt's like, truly awful from a humanitarian perspective, and pretty fucking bad from a long term view for Russia, but if you're an old rich fuck at the top of the pyramid, there's a certain fucked up logic to it.", ">\n\nThose citizen soldiers are just meat for the grinder, the real concern is the loss of the professional soldier. One thing the US has been really good at is learning from military action. Russia now has minimal to no capability to do so.", ">\n\n1 - Putin dead\n2 - Lavrov dead\n3 - Get the fuck out of my Country and stay out.", ">\n\nYou forgot:\n4 - Reparations. \n5 - Reducing nuclear stockpile to 1 warhead.", ">\n\n1 is too generous at this point. The regime needs to be dismantled completely.", ">\n\nThey can keep one and have to store it on the Red Square.", ">\n\nThey have to shove it up Lenin's mummified corpse", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nRussian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Thursday rejected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's \"Peace formula\" as a basis for talks, outlining three conditions that Moscow will not accept.\nThe peace formula would \"Save thousands of lives,\" Zelensky said.\nRussia has asserted that Ukraine must accept the September annexation of four of its regions-Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia-following sham referendums called by Russian President Vladimir Putin.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Russian^#1 Peace^#2 Zelensky^#3 world^#4 formula^#5", ">\n\nLast I checked, if you're getting your ass handed to you, you don't set the conditions of peace.", ">\n\nI mean, Japan was getting its shit pushed in pretty well, and they somehow managed to negotiate for ‘none of our royal family gets free trips to the Hague, despite the prince blatantly being a war criminal’.", ">\n\nYou know that’s what the US basically wanted. They didn’t want to depose the emperor and risk having a population that didn’t want to listen and would resist. With the emperor still there the population would at least listen and not turn an occupation into a shitfest with guerrilla attacks and such", ">\n\nHow very Zapp Brannigan, to think you can set the terms for ending the war you're losing THAT YOU FUCKING STARTED.\nJust take the L and go home. Also end Putin's reign.", ">\n\nGlad to see they've given up on \"De-nazification\" and outright murdering the president of Ukraine? Weren't those the objectives? Now it's about land? How shifty are these goalposts? Does Putin even know what he wants or is he just snatching up everything he can and murdering Ukrainians indiscriminately like some sort of monster? How is shooting missiles at hospitals and bombing women and children huddled in the basement of a theatre related to these objectives? Or does he just mass murder people to make them afraid?\nNobody is going to negotiate with that treacherous fuck. This ends only when he is dead or in prison, and possibly not even then. But it's the only realistic starting point.", ">\n\nIt was about land from the start, specifically Ukraine’s gas deposits from what I understand, this whole thing is a shitshow started over fossil fuels", ">\n\nRight in time for breakthroughs in fusion tech. Bad timing", ">\n\nMeh, I’m not betting on fusion", ">\n\n\"Hey, what are you doing in my house?\"\n\"Calm down, let's not fight, okay?\"\n\"Fine, just get out of my house!\"\n\"What?\"\n\"My house. Get out of it!\"\n\"What do you mean? This is my house.\"\n\"Wha-, no! I live here. I was just sleeping in my bed with my wife. We've lived here for 16 years!\"\n\"Preeetty sure it's my house, actually. I'm here aren't I?\"\n\"That doesn't make sense!\"\n\"Plus, your kids said it was fine.\"\n\"Wait, why are you holding a knife to my kids' throats?\"\n\"No reason. Anyway, they said they wanted me to live here. Relax. I'm only taking the living room and kitchen.\"\n\"No! Get out of my house!\"\n\"I'm going to get angry, you know. I'll hurt you.\"\n\"Bring it on!\"\n\"Okay, but you asked for it. This is entirely your doing, not mine. I tried to be reasonable and peaceful.\"", ">\n\nJust go home, war criminal", ">\n\nWait, Russia thinks people are still listening to them? Lol", ">\n\nThat's fine, Russia. America will keep training and equipping your victims with advanced weapons. By all means, keep feeding conscripts into the meat grinder. Russia will run out of resources, money, and people.", ">\n\nAdvance weapons ? No we’re giving Ukraine the old and paid off shit that we made in excess from 10 years ago. \nThey haven’t seen our newest shit yet.", ">\n\nAmerica's 40 year old weapons are at least 35 years ahead of Russia's latest weapons. Did you notice they announced they \"upgraded\" their Tu-160 \"white swan\" bombers to carry newer weapons like 2 weeks after the U.S. unveiled the B-21 which is totally immune to Russian air defenses and which can change shape or disappear entirely from radar? I'm sure the Americans are shaking in their boots.", ">\n\nChange shape? Whaaaa?", ">\n\nOn radar. It can apparently make itself look like anything the air force wants...a bird, a 747, a ghost.", ">\n\n\"Vasily, it appears there's a colossal penis flying directly towards us!\"", ">\n\nLmao looks like they're already practicing!", ">\n\nThings Russia will not entertain when negotiating peace: 1. Admittance of impotence. 2. Surrender. 3. Peace", ">\n\nThey are going to have to kick them out by force. Any concessions made won't be met in good faith. If Ukraine gives them the territory for peace Russia will just do it again. What would be stopping them. It sucks because it is going to be a long hard and costly grind for Ukraine but giving into Russian concessions will only stop Russian aggression momentarily.", ">\n\nRussia: “if you want peace you have to follow these conditions!”\nUkraine: \nUkraine: These are just your victory conditions.\nRussia: “I’m aware.”", ">\n\nMaybe just stop invading Ukraine, assholes.\nIt's really simple. Stay in Russia. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.", ">\n\n\"We can't win the war, but we won't stop it unless we get what we want anyway.\" Fucking unbelievable.", ">\n\nLosers don't get to dictate terms.", ">\n\nThey simply need to leave. Slava Ukraine", ">\n\nBeggars can’t be choosers", ">\n\nI wonder what Russia's terms will be in 6 months?", ">\n\nEqually laughable", ">\n\nGood point, but I believe they get increasingly ludicrous.", ">\n\nThat they do. Their headlines are already rivaling The Onion in ridiculousness.", ">\n\nRussia should send along a body bag with their soldiers. That’s the only resting place they will have. It’s sad to have one deranged leader ruin so many lives on all sides. The fat pos needs be picked up and send to The Hague. The coward he is means he won’t leave Moscow", ">\n\nThey do but tell their soldiers that they are 'sleeping bags'.", ">\n\nThey’re so cute when they think they have bargaining room.", ">\n\nThey think the civilian suffering they inflict is their bargaining chip. It's basically terrorism.", ">\n\nThey’ve played that card so much now, it’s totally hollow.", ">\n\nThis has the same energy as teenage me fantasizing about sleeping with Samantha Carter, Janet Frasier AND Carolyn Lam.", ">\n\nSilly Russians think there will be a Russia when this turkey shoot is over. Good riddance.", ">\n\n\"Angry drunk negotiates with the sun to stop day and night cycle\"", ">\n\n\" We want the key strategic war points so we can end the war and start a new one.\"\nShut the fuck up Russia.", ">\n\n\nPutting forward all sorts of ideas and 'formulas of peace,' Zelensky cherishes the illusion of achieving, with the help of the West, the withdrawal of our troops from the Russian territory of Donbas, Crimea, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region, the payment of reparations by Russia, and the surrender of international tribunals and the like.\n\nSo basically no consequences.", ">\n\nOrcz GO HOME - on your feet or in a bag......", ">\n\nGuy wanted a warm water port. Should've just played politics with Ukraine, and then incorporated Transnistria. Want a pro-Russian president? Well, make Ukrainians like you. With mutual defense pacts, trade pacts...generally cute treaties.", ">\n\nOh go home already, and quit whining!", ">\n\nJust leave and give back the kids you kidnap.", ">\n\nWithdrawing from the occupied regions - including the Crimea - should be just the first step in any peace plan.", ">\n\nHard to see how this ends short of a decapitation operation followed swiftly by a NATO ultimatum or a straight up conventional intervention.", ">\n\nPeace plan: \nStep 1: yeet Pootler from penthouse window\nStep 3: profit.", ">\n\nOh thats cute, they think they’re in a position to negotiate.", ">\n\nThe US should annex Siberia. If Russia complains, the US can then just quote Russian negotiation idiocy back at them.", ">\n\nSome very heavy consequences are due so that Putin (and future copycats) don’t play this game again. I’m all for russia having to lose additional land (actual acreage) to Ukraine over this. “You purposely break someone else’s toys, as a consequence, you have to give them some of yours”.", ">\n\nLiarov negotiating with himself lol", ">\n\nRussia, talks big, can’t back it up. It’s like a broken record at this point. They are in NO position to negotiate at this point. They will capitulate, it’s just a matter of time now.", ">\n\nThe Russians know what’s coming for them in the Spring. It’s likely they’ll lose most if not all of the land they’ve stolen. Lavrov is telling us that they are afraid that they’ll lose and be shown to be weak in front of the world. We’ve known all along that this gangster regime would try anything to stay in power. However, the Russian people will not go along with losers. Putin is more afraid of being shown to be a loser than anything else. They lose power if they lose the war they started. They know it, the Russian people know it, and the rest of the world knows it.", ">\n\nLooks like the Russian got the memo that they need to talk with Ukraine if they want peace. \nBut it looks like more beating is needed for understanding to improve.", ">\n\nRussia should just fuck off and die!", ">\n\nits kinda funny how 1 uncorrupt comedian took down 1 wannabe dictator Trump and a really experianced dictator Putin!", ">\n\nI hate this fucking guys face lol", ">\n\nBad faith actors who will turnaround and complain no one wants to talk to them about peace negotiations", ">\n\nUkraine should just respond that their only acceptable terms will be same terms Russia accepted on the treaty of Brest litovsk", ">\n\nRussia as we know it will cease to exist in near future mr. Lavrov", ">\n\nAh, the loosing mother fuckers give the conditions now?", ">\n\nLosing.", ">\n\nWell if this is their stance, they will eventually have to accept the downfall and ramifications of their decision and stance because no country is going to sit idly by while you attempt to genocide them", ">\n\nI hate it when they misquote. Russia's Foreign Minister actually said, \"Any negotiation must begin with Citizen Volodymyr Zelenskyy reciting, 'Yes, President Putin, I am your little bitch.' Otherwise, Russia will not consider talking.\"", ">\n\nWhat’s with the deluge of remarks about negotiation terms the last few weeks? I’m used to seeing it, just not this frequently. Are their supplies just not going to make it through another winter?", ">\n\nThe call for peace is for domestic consumption only.\nStep 1 - Desingenuous attempts to make peace. \nStep 2 - Attempts fail because Ukrainians laugh at their demands.\nStep 3 - Tell Russians \"See? The Ukrainians are unreasonable warmongerers. We must continue sending your sons&husbands&fathers to die at the frontlines!! We might draft the women after\"\nRussia knows Ukraine won't accept anything less than complete Russian withdrawal to pre-2014 borders.", ">\n\nIt's not for domestic consumption only. Somehow, unfathomably people all round the world gobble this shit.", ">\n\nConditions from the losing side. \nHow delicious.", ">\n\nPeace won’t happen anytime soon. Iran-Iraq War all over again. Tragic.", ">\n\nFk you Lavrov. You ugly MF!", ">\n\nWhat they want, they're trying to steal. And they are losing. Genocide, kidnapping, it's a lot for them to pay for. And their word... is shit.", ">\n\nIt’s adorable that Russia still thinks they have any chance of getting Kherson or Zaporizhzhia. They don’t even control the regional capitals. And at the rate the war is going they’ll lose Donbas and Crimea as well when Ukraine liberates those areas.", ">\n\nGood because zelensky's offer fell short of confiscating and destroying Russia's nukes. Should be a global mandate that No society and in particular no corrupt leader may ever threaten Humanity with Extinction again.", ">\n\nI thought the country that wins or is winning dictates the peace conditions.. so Russia is not it.", ">\n\nMore Russians will die\nSurprising to say a behemoth being taken a few pegs down", ">\n\nLOL. Ukraine just hardens their resolve and more guns are pointed at him. What an incredibly stupid thing to say from a so called ambassador. I predict Russia's dictator government will collapse in less than one year. They are stone broke, running out of bullets to helmets, begging people on the internet for supples, very revealing of the true state of things.", ">\n\nLooks like Russians are going to keep dying then. There is no compromise on Ukraine's sovereign territory: it's theirs, it is not yours, the end. Leave, now.", ">\n\nHitler 2.0 out here looking for concessions. Where have we seen this before...? Hopefully the worlds leaders can see the cycle playing out.", ">\n\nEverytime Mouth of Sauron starts babbling, I hear this", ">\n\nTime to bomb Moscow", ">\n\nIm waiting for Ukraine to annex Belgorod ( on Paper) and claim That Russia has to \"take into account today's realities regarding Ukrainian Territory , With the entry of Belgorod into Ukraine \"", ">\n\nNo more calls for peace talks then, may the best man win on the battlefield.", ">\n\nRussia is in no position to negotiate.\nThey are losing, and if the war continues, they will lose. Peace for them is a mercy.\nTheir choices are continue the war, lose 100k more men, tank their economy even more, and still lose all their land in Ukraine as well as their foreign assets, or just make peace, give up all the land in Ukraine now, and accept that all seized foreign assets will be transferred to Ukraine to help them rebuild.", ">\n\nSo basically, he’s saying “we invaded you, and you beat the fuck out of us at every step. So for the (our) asswhupping to stop, you must let us keep what we stole.” \nOk there, so they can make up some random nonexistent Russian in some part of Ukraine or other countries to justify this bullshit? Nah, fuck off.", ">\n\nAny stop in this war is just time for Russia to develop another plan of attack. No peace for Russia", ">\n\nSuck my stick Ruzzists!", ">\n\nFuck off Russia! Come back when you’ve fully withdrawn from all occupied areas of Ukraine (including Crimea), returned all kidnapped Ukrainians (including children), and are prepared to pay reparations.", ">\n\nHave studied Russian negotiating tactics for some 40 years. The President/Premier etc floats à broad proposal in this case Putin saying he may be ready to negotiate. Lavrov floats ideas. Putin knows no one will agree to the ideas but since he didn't male them he is free to disavow them. He will wait for someone to make a counter proposal and Putin will have Lavrov float another. This will go back and forth for a while and when they get close they will sit down and negotiate through a team. The important thing here is that Putin is ready to bail on this war and is looking for an off ramp that he can spin as a win for Russia and him.", ">\n\nGet a load of this guy", ">\n\nThat man has the most orangutan shaped face I’ve ever seen", ">\n\nWhy is it always against the West? Is their entire purpose built against the West? Like I didn’t even care about Russia until they invaded Ukraine.", ">\n\nIt's part of Russia's line to dismiss Ukraine as a non-entity, a fake country with fake culture. They're simply a proxy or puppet of the West (which is like a vague term but essentially a bogeyman) to destroy Russia. The Ukrainians have no agency of their own, so Russians only want to talk to US. \nBasically it's like your colleague ignoring you to speak to another colleague or your boss.\nOn a related note, Russia keeps talking about \"the West\" because it can't admit they're losing to Ukraine's army (they claimed it doesn't exist or they already destroy it, too much propaganda to keep up). On local Russian news they always talke about fighting NATO/the West.", ">\n\nFor Ukraine, joining NATO and EU would be valuable as that would either stop the war with Russia completely or escalate into ww3 and russia would not go to war with whole EU and NATO. \nI would give them some piece of land for that, maybe Crimea or something else, just for them to sign truce. Once that is achieved, Ukraine should quickly get into EU and NATO and that will stop all future conflicts in near future. Also we need to take Russia back from China's sphere of influence.\nChina might want to start a ww3 in the future, but not by themselves. If Russia is not allied with them, China will not start it as that would mean they would be surrounded by enemies. If Russia and China are allied, then the chance of them starting more wars increases and the probability for ww3 increases. We need to isolate China, not Russia. Russia can be won over to the European side once Putin is gone.", ">\n\nI think Ukrainian should be generous here. Let Putler keep kerch bridge except for the last 500 yards which conects it to Crimea. Just create a U turn there so back to Russia it goes. Oh and put those pay telescopes so Russians can observe all the Ukrainians living it up on the beaches of Crimea. And just for insult to injury, erect a huge statue of Zelensky right in the center there.", ">\n\nThrow that KGB terrorist into the brink awaiting execution.", ">\n\nFOH. Ukraine is sovereign.", ">\n\nShut the fuck up and withdraw from Ukraine, you unbelievable assholes", ">\n\nCareful drawing lines in the sand, Ivan. It’s just another opportunity to look weak. \nEven if they held territories, what’s to stop constant Ukrainian asymmetrical warfare attacks on infrastructure and local Russian leadership? Wtf is Russia going to do? Invade them? Bomb them? They have no cards left except nukes and they know they are fucking done if they do that (as are most of us..). It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin went that route given his health and ego though. He won’t have to deal with the fallout.", ">\n\nThe only reason Lavarov is going on the way he is, is so that Putin won't have him mysteriously pushed out a window - I honestly believe most under Putin are not in agreement to what he keeps doing, but they don't have the balls to push back against him. Those who have died so far via mysterious means are a psychological method to show to others 'this is what happens if you speak out against me'. They're just going along with Putin to save their own a$$.", ">\n\nWell I guess Putin wants to keep losing then.", ">\n\nAnyone else notice that r/news is basically a publicist for the Kremlin now?", ">\n\nNot surprising that Russia just said that they do not want peace.", ">\n\nHoping the EU steps up and helps as much as the US - that’s when you will see real progress", ">\n\nTL;DR: Russia is looking for Ukraine's surrender and not peace talks." ]