comment
stringlengths
1
9.9k
context
sequencelengths
0
835
> Good, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy" ]
> It's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. The circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. Interesting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us." ]
> They’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!" ]
> Yeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him." ]
> Look at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. Yeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified." ]
> You're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen" ]
> Excuse me, I'm a goose
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread." ]
> Damn Garland real quick on this.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose" ]
> and yet so slow on trump
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this." ]
> The GOP keeps crying about "unequal treatment"? There's your unequal treatment right there.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump" ]
> House GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there." ]
> They will do that anyway.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January." ]
> True. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway." ]
> Man this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies. Trump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that. Biden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor. Sure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago? Or maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly "apolitical" DoJ. Either way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already." ]
> Trump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily. Aside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look." ]
> Whatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?" ]
> slow walking the National Archives. slow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives." ]
> I thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying "meemeemeemeemee" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY" ]
> Biden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?" ]
> Investigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump." ]
> We all know it won’t go down that way, though.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump." ]
> The US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though." ]
> Kinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure." ]
> I’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is: The Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. Trump will be indicted for not doing so. The end.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?" ]
> I watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out. If Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like "liberal" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end." ]
> Of course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup. Don't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them "Enemies of the State", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way." ]
> The CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview: "It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS." "I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going." "Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun." - Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal." ]
> Special Counsel. No surprise.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS" ]
> We're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise." ]
> Given the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years" ]
> From CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years. ​ ----------CNN BELOW---------- The group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part." ]
> Watching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said." ]
> Selectively defund!
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?" ]
> Let there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!" ]
> I mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy." ]
> That’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it." ]
> I think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation." ]
> The only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them. They didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit." ]
> Lemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots." ]
> And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former Dems love going out of their way to show how "neutral" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise. I'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it. But like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how "neutral" they are, while basically delivering "bothsidesism" to Republicans.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break" ]
> I wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans." ]
> In other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. Of course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say "SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME" and then treat Trump like a martyr.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days." ]
> I don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr." ]
> No one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of "3 weeks of wall to wall coverage" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was "little coverage" of Trump's bullshit.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes" ]
> The difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections. Trump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit." ]
> I think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. In all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. This is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!" ]
> In all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful." ]
> Also the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back." ]
> I’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained." ]
> You mean George Santos and Carrot Top
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?" ]
> I'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing! What's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top" ]
> I for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho)." ]
> Maybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms." ]
> Dibs on jfk assassination papers.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens." ]
> Fine, but I get the full 9/11 report.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers." ]
> Trade after?
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report." ]
> Your terms are acceptable.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?" ]
> The real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable." ]
> I had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly "secret" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this." ]
> CNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents Comer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.” But, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden. lol, lmao 'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something." ]
> 118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'" ]
> This is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024." ]
> remember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith." ]
> I am completely fine with a special counsel for this. We should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun." ]
> Correct.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name." ]
> Best outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think. Unfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect." ]
> Especially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men." ]
> It should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”" ]
> Yeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action." ]
> Doesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been." ]
> CNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ." ]
> Thousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents" ]
> I feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak." ]
> Ah yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly. Only difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing" ]
> Playing by the rules is a weakness unfortunately
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that." ]
> This is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately" ]
> Yep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. Little annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump." ]
> Cooperation and transparency is making his job easy.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?" ]
> Because of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy." ]
> Turmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match" ]
> This is so annoying.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents." ]
> Yet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM?? Justice in America is dead.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying." ]
> This is the same step they took with Trump.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead." ]
> Compare the timeframes, lol.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump." ]
> The odd thing: timing. For the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing. Right after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol." ]
> It would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔" ]
> Dems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible." ]
> Nothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both." ]
> Yawn. Call me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway." ]
> Biden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. If anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump." ]
> Oh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else." ]
> Investigate all you need, I have no issue with that. Don't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes. Trump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. If you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire." ]
> This seems really convenient.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous." ]
> This was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. Everything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad. Its so incredibly stupid
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient." ]
> I am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid" ]
> No problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be)." ]
> Can’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody." ]
> See you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?" ]
> That does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story." ]
> “We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”
[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way" ]